New Realities recoded June 24, 2007.
Summary
This audio is an episode of the radio show ‘New Realities’, hosted by Alan Steinfeld. The show focuses on the topic of UFOs, starting with a discussion of the 60th anniversary of Kenneth Arnold’s famous flying saucer sighting. Steinfeld then interviews Bill Birnes, the publisher of UFO Magazine, about various aspects of the UFO phenomenon.
They discuss topics like the Philadelphia Experiment, the potential for time travel, and the possibility that UFOs might be extraterrestrial, interdimensional, or even time travelers from our own future. They also touch on the likelihood of government disclosure regarding UFO information.
Transcript
Welcome. Welcome to New Realities. This program is dedicated to exploring evolving human potentials in an evolving world. I’m Alan Steinfeld, and I’ve been doing this program on television for the last 10 years and now, finally, coming to radio is New Realities. Each week, I like to bring guests to this program who are evolving our consciousness, who are exploring new ideas, and how to become more conscious beings. This program presents issues and ideas that tend to look at how to get over our automatic behaviors and brainwashing and conditioning and tap the free rein of our body, mind, and spirit. This program is about achieving a more peaceful reality for a more peaceful planet. I’m continuously on the lookout for new ways in which we can enlarge our consciousness. We must not attempt to limit our slice of the world but must expand and transform it. In the words of the great masters, let me tell you what this program’s dedicated to. Aldous Huxley said, “Our business is to wake up. We have to find ways in which to detect the whole of reality in the illusionary parts which our self-centered consciousness permits us to see.” And John Stuart Mill said, “No great improvement in the lot of humankind is possible until a great change takes place in their mode of thinking.” So this program is really about changing the way we think, changing the attitudes that we have about our life and about what we think reality is.
Alan Steinfeld
Today, actually, is a very important landmark day. Today is the 60th anniversary of the flying saucer. It was in 1947, on July 24th, today, that Kenneth Arnold, who was a businessman flying a plane in Washington state near Mount Rainier, saw nine saucer-like discs flying in front of the mountain. He saw that about 3:00 PM. When he looked over as he was flying back home, he lived in Boise, Idaho, he was flying from Chehalis, which is near the coast of Washington, southwest of Olympia, he looked up at the mountain, and he saw, and I’ll read actually his statement, because I think this is a really important time to honor the reality that there are UFOs. There are beings from other planets. They have been visiting Earth. There are thousands, hundreds of thousands of eyewitness reports, there are tens of thousands of photographs, there are probably thousands of videos. There is enough proof to show that there is something else going on out there. But it was Kenneth Arnold in 1947, June 24th, the anniversary today, which started the whole thing off when he said, “Look, there are flying saucers.” And I’ll just tell you what he said. This is taken from an article that Kenneth Arnold wrote in the next couple of months after his sighting. And he says here, “The following story of what I observed over the Cascade Mountains, as impossible as it may seem, is positively true. I never asked nor wanted any notoriety for just accidentally being in the right spot at the right time to observe what I did. I reported something that I know any pilot would have reported. I don’t think in any way my observations are due to any sensitivity of my eyes or misjudgments other than what is considered normal to a pilot.” Because after, of course, he reported this, many people said he was seeing things. So Kenneth Arnold continues, “On Tuesday, June 24th, 1947, I had finished my work for the Central Air Service of Chehalis, Washington, at about 2:00 PM. I took off from the Chehalis, Washington airport with the intention of going to Yakima, Washington.” He was on his way to Boise, but he went to Yakima. “My trip was delayed for an hour to search for a large marine transport that supposedly went down near and around Mount Rainier.” So he says the air was smooth that day, and he just took off from Chehalis, Washington, which is a nice little small town in Southern Washington. And this was a beautiful day for flying. So he says, “The air was smooth that day, and it was a real pleasure flying. As most pilots do when the air is smooth and they are flying at a high altitude, I trimmed out my airline in the direction of Yakima, which was almost directly east of my position, and simply sat back and let my plane observe and observing the sky and the terrain. The sky was clear as crystal. And then,” he says, “I had not flown more than two or three minutes on this course when a bright flash reflected on my plane. It startled me as I thought I was too close to some other aircraft. I looked everywhere in the sky and couldn’t find where the reflection had come from until I looked to the left and the north of Mount Rainier, where I observed a chain of nine peculiar looking aircraft flying from north to south at approximately 9,500 feet elevation and going seemingly in a definite direction of 170 degrees north to south.” So he saw these ships, these saucers over Mount Rainier, and they were heading south towards Mount Adams, which is about, I think it’s probably about 50 miles or maybe 150 miles from, as the crow flies, between Mount Rainier, which is a beautiful mountain in Washington, to Mount Adams, which I think is at the Washington-Oregon border.
Alan Steinfeld
Arnold continues, “They were approaching Mount Rainier very rapidly, and I merely assumed they were jet planes. Anyhow, I discovered that this was where the reflection had come from, as two or three of them every few seconds would dip or change their course slightly, just enough for the sun to strike them at an angle that reflected brightly in my eyes.” Let me just interrupt here and say that it was here that Kenneth Arnold coined the term ‘flying saucer’. He said these objects were flying as if they were saucers skipping along a lake, as if you threw like a saucer or rock and you see the way that that rock skips across the surface of the lake. That’s how these vehicles were flying. And that’s when he said they were flying like saucers, like flying saucers. “These objects,” he says, “were quite far away. I was unable for a few seconds to make out their shape or formation, but very shortly they approached Mount Rainier, and I observed their outline against the snow quite plainly. I thought it was rather peculiar that I couldn’t find their tails, the tails to the aircraft, but assumed they were some type of new jet, and I was determined to clock their speed. I remember distinctly looking at my sweep second hand watch on my clock, which was located on my instrument panel that read 1 minute to 3 PM, as the first object of this formation passed the southern edge of Mount Rainier. I watched these objects with great interest as I had never before observed airplanes flying so close to the mountaintops, flying directly south to southeast down the hog’s back of a mountain range. I would estimate their elevation could have varied a thousand feet one way or another, but they were pretty much on the horizon to me, which would indicate they were near the same elevation. They flew, as I frequently observed geese to fly, in a rather diagonal, line-like shape, as if they were linked together. They seemed to hold a definite direction but swerved in and out of the high mountain peaks.” But what kept bothering me, as I watched them flip and flash in the sun right along their path, was the fact that I couldn’t make out their tails. There was no tail, he’s saying. There was no airplane tail, which is normal, there was never a plane that did not have an airplane tail. And I was sure that any pilot would justify more than a second look at such a plane. I observed them quite plainly and I estimated my distance from them, which was at a right angle, so he’s flying east and these planes are flying due south, from north to, so he’s coming right, they’re right in front of him, right in his view. And I knew they must be very large to permit me to observe their shape at a distance. He was about 25 miles. And the more I observed these objects, the more upset I became. And I am accustomed and familiar with most flying objects, whether I am close to the ground or high in the altitude. So he knew his airplanes and this was nothing like Kenneth Arnold had ever seen. “I could safely assume that the chain-like effect of these saucers were about 5 miles long, so from the first object to the ninth object in that line was about 5 miles. Even though two minutes seems like a very short time to one on the ground, in the air, in two minutes, a pilot can observe a great many things, and anything within that field of vision probably 50 or 60 times. But when these objects were flying approximately straight and level, they weren’t dipping in and out, they were just a thin black line, and the only time I could get a judgment as to their size was when they flipped to their side. These objects were holding an almost constant elevation. They did not seem to be going up or down, such as would be the case of a rocket or artillery shell. I am convinced in my own mind that they were some type of airplane, even though they did not conform with many aspects of conventional types of planes that I know. I would have given almost anything that day to have had a movie camera with a telephoto lens, and from now on, I will never be without one.” So he observed them for two minutes. They flew south. They disappeared over Mount Rainier. And Kenneth Arnold says, “When I landed in Yakima, Washington, I described what I had seen to my very good friend Al Baxter, who was the general manager of Central Airport Company. He listened patiently and was courteous but in a joking way he didn’t believe me.” But then Arnold takes off for his next destination, and when he lands there, he is swarmed by reporters who have gotten the story from Al Baxter, who said that he reported Kenneth Arnold seeing these flying saucers, flying saucer-shaped discs. So tonight’s program is really dedicated to the flying saucer, to what are these things, the discovery, and what is our current history about them. What does it mean? I just came back from a symposium that I helped organize, which was called the Culture of Contact. You could look that up on the internet, cultureofcontact.com, and this was three days of the way the UFO, the flying saucer, whatever you want to call them, have these alien crafts, have they, how they influenced our art, our movies, our literature, how they’ve really have become part of our culture, basically. And so my first guest coming up in a few minutes is the publisher of UFO magazine, Bill Birnes. And he was very much responsible for the conference today in New York, Culture of Contact, 60 years of UFO interaction, and probably more. It’s probably been way longer than 60 years, but it’s been in the last 60 years that this phenomenon has actually been in the public awareness. There was a huge flap of sightings in the late 1800s, early 1900s. It seems to go through waves. There were the foo fighters of World War II. They’ve been around. They’re right now, we’re sort of in another wave. There was the O’Hare airport sighting, and that’s actually on the February 2007 issue of UFO magazine, which we’ll be hearing more about soon. It’s the O’Hare incident, the UFO that will not go away. I also welcome phone calls about the subject. If you’re listening to BBSRadio.com, you could look there on the website and just get the phone number to call in. And if you have any experiences of having been contacted, sightings, abductions, whatever it’s, whatever, interested in hearing this because I think that enough people can, you can’t talk enough about the situation. I think the more people that talk about their contact situations, the more people that have come forward and say, “Hey, I saw something.” The more other people will come forward and admit to seeing something else.
Alan Steinfeld
Hi, Alan. How are you?
Bill Birnes
Hey, Bill. Thanks for being a guest.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh, it is my pleasure.
Bill Birnes
Yeah. How’d you, how’d you like the conference? I was just telling people a little bit about the conference. How did, what did you think about it today?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I thought it was a really good conference. I have to say that the one thing about UFO conferences, the ones that I’ve been to, is that by and large, a lot of the professional ones really you see people who act like a bunch of college students or high school students. They go from lecture to lecture because the speakers are going to kind of give them this great knowledge. And of course, at this conference, one of the really most positive parts about it is that the people who attended here attended from the point of view of they all had their shared experience, which was this encounter with something beyond the edge of reality.
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
And so there was a shared experience at the core of this conference, as opposed to other places where again, you might as well be going to hear a chemistry lecture or a history lecture.
Bill Birnes
Well, it’s that very topic, the fact because I showed, I call this show New Realities. It’s that idea about being beyond the edge of reality that I’d really like to focus on. It’s not just asciting, yes, everyone knows they’re out there. Pictures are everywhere. But what is it that is about the reality that how we have to change our perceptions in order to integrate this phenomenon. Can you talk about that?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, sure. I mean, what you have are people by and large, they get up, they go to work, they get on a bus, they go out of work, they have, they come home, they have dinner, they go to bed, right? They watch television.
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
Television is like the ultimate matrix, right? It tells you what reality is.
Bill Birnes
Exactly.
Alan Steinfeld
It tells you who are the good guys, right? Who are the bad guys, what you have to buy, how you’re going to die, right? What you’re going to get sick from. And then you have people like the, I think, really fortunate people at this conference who looked beyond that world, beyond the world of, if you’re in Manhattan, getting on a subway, going to work, getting on a bus, going out of work, they’re beyond that world.
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
And where they are is they look to a world where there are creatures that resemble us but really are, have the abilities that we have to exponential levels, right?
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
They’re creatures for whom… Yeah, go ahead.
Bill Birnes
They’re creatures for whom intuition and a certain kind of mentalic ability, a psychic ability is part of their daily life. Not like us where you’re part of a freak show if you have any of those kinds of abilities.
Alan Steinfeld
So what is it going to take for those people going to work, going unconscious? I mean, is it going to take disclosure as Stephen Bassett and Steven Greer say? I mean, what is it going to take those people that are living a limited life to wake up and say, you know, maybe there’s something else going on here?
Bill Birnes
Well, that’s a good point. Stephen Bassett and Stephen Greer are right. That’s going to be a big event. When that happens, the government says, you know what, we will not deny, we will not deny this, right?
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Bill Birnes
However, my concern is that really it’s not going to change much because people are simply going to integrate this into their daily lives. So they get up, they go to work, they watch television, their UFOs.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Well, what would you expect to change? Would you expect possibly the end of war, to say, hey, we’re one planet, let’s act like an intelligent civilization?
Bill Birnes
Well, that’s what Ronald Reagan said, didn’t he? And that’s what Clinton said, and Hillary Clinton said it. That what if we suddenly found ourselves as a planet amidst a group of other planets which have life. Suddenly wouldn’t all our differences disappear? And the answer is maybe yes, maybe no. I mean, the analogy that I’d like to use is the analogy of the European powers colonizing North and South America. When the European powers, Spain and France and Holland and Great Britain, when they discovered and began colonizing the New World and realized there were people there, whole gorgeous North America, a wonderful continent, when they saw that, rather than come together, they fought the colonial wars. So would we then be in a whole new series of colonial wars only this time we’re the Algonquin and we’re the Seneca and we’re the ones being colonized by other species.
Alan Steinfeld
But I do think we’re a little more involved. I mean, even Al Gore said, look, you know, 50, 60 years ago you’d never think that France and Germany would have the same monetary system, that there would be an economic union. I think there is some evolution on the part of our consciousness on Earth. I think we are making some slight progress, besides George Bush.
Bill Birnes
I’d like to believe that. I’d like to believe that. I’d like to believe that what’s happening to our planet would bring people together. And that’s what I’m hoping. That the old line forces, the ones who were saying, “Oh no, it’s not gonna do anything, this is stupid, you’re all wrong.” that’s gonna be dismissed. And I don’t know who’s right. But I do know that there is a certain kind of a level of consciousness where there are leaders and scientists saying that these are problems that supersede the concerns of any one country that demand a greater level of cooperation.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I also, I wanna ask you about something you said the other night on Coast to Coast. George Noory’s Coast to Coast. You were talking about Jacques Vallée and I think this is what you said. You said that the government doesn’t want to know us to know about ETs because if they did, we have the same ability that they do to bend reality. Did you say something like that?
Bill Birnes
Right. That’s what, yeah. That’s what this Navy commander told us 10 years ago. He said that in the military, everybody knows. And of course, we all heard at the conference that Pickerings talked about the briefing book, the SOM, the briefing book, for military pilots on encountering UFOs. So we all know that inside the military, it’s a commonly held understanding that there are flying saucers and they’re intelligently guided. What Hoover said was that’s not the secret. The secret was, and the surprise, the surprise was, and the danger that we were told about, was that these inhabitants, these pilots of this craft, weren’t just visitors from another world. They were us. They were us in some cases from the future. They were us from different planets where we had been seeded thousands or millions of years, hundreds of thousands of years before the Earth was seated. So therefore, they were more advanced. But they really were human.
Alan Steinfeld
They really had the same essence that we have in terms of …
Bill Birnes
It’s the whole issue of what’s known as panspermia. They were Homo sapiens. They were human beings far advanced, evolutionarily advanced, but they were human beings. And the issue was we have the same psychokinetic and powers of intentionality and psychic abilities that they had. And the government didn’t want the people to know that.
Alan Steinfeld
Now, who said, who’s Hoover, and really, were forcing us into this kind of matrix of not using our own abilities.
Bill Birnes
The government was forcing us into this or the ETs were forcing us into it?
Alan Steinfeld
No, the government was. The ETs didn’t care. It was the government that was doing it. That’s why there was no disclosure.
Bill Birnes
Now, who said this? Who said this?
Alan Steinfeld
This is a gentleman, a naval commander by the name of George Hoover, H-O-O-V-E-R. He was in the Office of Naval Intelligence, and he was the person, he was the commander who investigated the Philadelphia Experiment.
Bill Birnes
Ah.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay? So, the Philadelphia Experiment really did happen. There was a, I know it’s a little side line, but that was the true, the Tesla devices made that ship invisible.
Bill Birnes
There was an event at the Philadelphia Navy Yard involving the destroyer escort USS Eldridge. It was that event. And officially the story was that they were using these huge coils, electromagnetic coils, right, there was a winding inside the coils generating electricity. They were using these coils and the Eldridge’s hull was the winding being passed through the hull the coils to remove from the Eldridge the magnetic signature so that the Eldridge and other ships, they weren’t matched at the Eldridge, wouldn’t set off the Japanese mines that were in the water in the home waters of Japan.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, so what happened was the power in the coils was so intense that it heat fused two sailors to the deck and melted the superstructure.
Bill Birnes
Wait. So the ship did not travel, it didn’t travel through time and end up in Montauk or wherever like Al Bielek.
Alan Steinfeld
No. That didn’t happen. What happened was that the Eldridge now a crippled vessel then sailed disappeared into the fog and sailed down the intercoastal water, the intracoastal waterway on its way to Norfolk, Virginia, to the Navy Yard. Now, what Arleigh Burke, Admiral Arleigh Burke told Colonel Philip Corso was that something else happened. They were observing the Eldridge on radar. And for the moment that the Eldridge became completely enveloped in the current from these two coils, it disappeared, it winked out from the radar.
Bill Birnes
From the radar. But the people on the ship, what happened to them?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, the sailors, two sailors were melted into the deck. They died.
Bill Birnes
So you don’t believe Bielek, Al Bielek’s story, who said that ship was teleported into the future. You do not.
Alan Steinfeld
No, I don’t. I don’t think that happened. I think the Eldridge disappeared from radar, and that’s when they said that the ship disappeared in time.
Bill Birnes
I see. I see. So where does this guy Hoover come in as far as his analysis of that and the UFOs? How do you connect that to the UFOs?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, Hoover, after he was asked by the Office of Naval Intelligence to investigate the USS Eldridge, Hoover became fascinated by time travel. Why would all these people, and he realized that the scientists who came up with the equipment that the Navy used was Nikola Tesla.
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
And he began researching Nikola Tesla, and Tesla’s claims of getting radio waves from the planet Jupiter.
Bill Birnes
Uh-huh.
Alan Steinfeld
So now he was fascinated. So he began investigating inside the Navy and that’s when he found out that the Navy knew of the our government’s dealing with UFOs.
Bill Birnes
I see. I see. So, was there something to do though, I mean, it’s strange that, you know, he would get fascinated with time travel after the Philadelphia Experiment. I mean, what, there must be some sort of connection, right?
Alan Steinfeld
Because he knew after the experiment that Carl Allen, who was a crew member on the Eldridge, had told Ray Bradbury, the science fiction writer, that the ship had disappeared in time. And that’s what the Office of Naval Intelligence had asked George Hoover to investigate, whether the ship traveled in time.
Bill Birnes
I see. But your saying it probably did not.
Alan Steinfeld
I’m saying it probably did not. That was a fiction created by Carl Allen and Ray Bradbury.
Bill Birnes
All right. I get it. Now, before we get to Roswell, I do want to ask you a little bit more about Jacques Vallee, because he really came out as a pro-UFO, like the phenomenon was real, and then he sort of retracted that and, and, you know, what happened, what’s Vallee’s development, and why did he sort of…
Alan Steinfeld
Well, there are two issues really. Vallee originally thought we were dealing with extraterrestrial craft.
Bill Birnes
Uh-huh.
Alan Steinfeld
Then he began to think, well, maybe they’re really not extraterrestrial, maybe they are interdimensional craft. That somehow space and time exist at a level, there’s a singularity at the level of the, quote, the Einstein intersection of matter and energy. That they were somehow a multiverse. And there were life forms, entities that could traverse the different planes of this multiverse, and that’s where he thinks these UFOs came from.
Bill Birnes
And still does, right? He still around talking about that, right?
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Bill Birnes
Have you talked to him personally?
Alan Steinfeld
No, no, not in a long time.
Bill Birnes
I see. I see. Because, so, I mean, I do think that the UFO is not completely of this dimension. They seem to pop in and out, at least the way they travel. I mean, don’t you think that…
Alan Steinfeld
Well, that’s what he’s saying. These are, these are interdimensional. These are not, these are not simply space travelers, because you can’t really traverse the, travel in space at the speeds they would have to travel and stay in one dimension.
Bill Birnes
Well, they could as, even I talk to Hal Puthoff, he’s investigating the zero point energy. He says if you get enough energy, you can open up wormholes in space and zip in and out of this dimension. So they can be possibly parsh part of this dimension and part of another dimension. I mean, there there’s a…
Alan Steinfeld
That’s right. That’s what he said about zero-point energy, that using, being able to use the dark energy, the most prevalent form of energy in the universe, that these craft could actually navigate between dimensions. Be partly in one, partly in the other. Right.
Bill Birnes
Well, it seems that the universe is teeming with life. There’s the, there’s that book by James Gardner called Biocosm and there’s other theories of anthropic theory of the universe, how the universe is geared towards building life. Not, not what the hardcore Darwinists say that life is an accident here, that it’s a, that it’s a freak of nature. It seems that life itself is part of the phenomena of the universe. I mean, wouldn’t you agree there?
Alan Steinfeld
Yes, I would. I would very much say that. And that the whole point is that we are on the periphery of an entire federation of civilizations.
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
And we are, are on the periphery. And he said, if you think about New York City in the 1890s, yeah, Earth would be Deadwood.
Bill Birnes
Like a little backward country.
Alan Steinfeld
Like, like a primitive warning country. Look, Deadwood, up in Dakota, remember Deadwood, Dakota?
Bill Birnes
Yeah. We’re pretty primitive.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, that was Deadwood, where Wild Bill Hickok was shot to death.
Bill Birnes
Right. So we, we’re a primitive culture and we’ve probably been isolated from the rest of the galactic family because we can’t get our own act together. Is that, is that what they’re saying?
Alan Steinfeld
That’s right. We are the wild west of the galactic pecking order.
Bill Birnes
Right. It sounds like such, I mean, the way when you say that, in a way it sounds like such science fiction, but you know, I would think it’s, unless it, but, but the fact that, you know, I know the government’s hiding from us, I know that it’s true, but you know, and I know that we have to get over our barbaric warlike nature, it is just not in the evolutionary plan. I mean…
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Well, yeah, that’s part of what’s going on. That we are a too violent a species, a violent race of human beings, and we’ve got a long way to grow.
Bill Birnes
I mean, do you think 2012 represents a kind of deadline for us as a species, as a planetary race?
Alan Steinfeld
No. No, I think more to the point, what 2012 marks is a recycling of time. Um, at the, at 2012, as you know…
Bill Birnes
Yeah.
Alan Steinfeld
Earth and the solar system crosses the galactic plane. So right now we’re in a period of intense solar system warming, right? Mars is getting hotter. Earth is getting hotter. Venus is getting hotter. Mercury is getting hotter. It’s the sun. The sun is getting hotter. The sun itself. Right. And Jupiter’s getting hotter too. So what I’m saying is we’re crossing the galactic plane in 2012. That’s it. Now that’s a restart of time for the ancient Mayans.
Bill Birnes
Now what is crossing the galactic plane, how does that affect consciousness itself? How do you, because I do believe that astrology…
Alan Steinfeld
Well, that’s a good question. That’s a very, very good question because let’s just say, well, there’s an idea that we’re passing through a very, very complex field of torsion field physics, right?
Bill Birnes
Uh-huh.
Alan Steinfeld
You know what that is, right? That’s the spinning of the spinning of the spinning of all these planets. Right. Has, um, a torsion effect.
Bill Birnes
Uh-huh.
Alan Steinfeld
And somehow that torsion effect of all these planets spinning around, that torsion effect somehow affects not just the tides and the way flowers grow and and but it also affects how human beings are able to project their consciousness.
Bill Birnes
Like Nassim Haramein. He talks all about that, that the same, do you know Nassim?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, there’s an actual physicality to it, if you want to know the truth.
Bill Birnes
Yeah.
Alan Steinfeld
I think that we are still biological entities at the end of the day, and there, and there is a physicality to this. I mean, there’s no question that there’s a physicality.
Bill Birnes
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
So, the torsion effect, as we come into this alignment, though, has the same effect on the the fluids of the brain, the perception. It’s distorting, not maybe not distorting, but it’s creating another level of reality that’s becoming apparent to us.
Bill Birnes
Yes, that’s right.
Alan Steinfeld
So, but and we don’t know really what it’s gonna look like.
Bill Birnes
No, we don’t. And we don’t know what it’s going to look like. Remember, we’re crossing the plane. What’s going to happen on the other side of that plane?
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Bill Birnes
Are all things going to get reversed? We don’t know. I mean, it sounds funny to say that, but we just don’t know.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, speaking of the plane, well, it’s awfully strange that the universe or the galaxy, the solar system is pretty flat. That all the planets revolve pretty much, except Pluto, in a disk-like fashion. That the, that the galaxy itself is rather disc-like. I mean, isn’t that odd considering all of the dimensions of space?
Bill Birnes
Well, it always seems though, Alan, that’s the point. This goes back to what you said about, uh, about Flatland and Sphereland.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Bill Birnes
We only see through our dimensional prism.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. So maybe there’s more to the whole universe that we just don’t see.
Bill Birnes
Actually, we’re only actually seeing 5% of what is really there. The rest is, you know, dark matter and dark energy.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s right. That’s exactly the point. We don’t see the other 95% of it.
Bill Birnes
So I describe it, I describe that understanding as if you are, we’re, you’re in a bathtub or you’re standing above the bathtub, and things are going down the drain, and all we’re looking at is the surface bubbles on the bath. Do you follow me?
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Yeah, we’re looking through, yeah, you’re looking through one part of that drain. What’s on the other side of that drain?
Bill Birnes
Well, we’re looking just… Right. We’re just looking at the surface of that bath. We’re not seeing the depth of, of what’s below that.
Alan Steinfeld
Exactly. That’s the point. That you’re only seeing through the dimensional prism that you have. You’re not seeing through the whole thing.
Bill Birnes
Right. And actually, our consciousness is only aware of 5% of what it’s actually taking in. So, in a sense, we have no idea of what reality is really about, do we?
Alan Steinfeld
No, we really don’t, because we don’t see. I mean, you see the black hole, but what’s on the other side of the black hole? What if there’s a whole universe on the other side? You don’t know that.
Bill Birnes
I believe that too. I do think, as, if you were to go through a black hole, and Neil deGrasse Tyson, I just saw a book called Death by Black Hole. Do you, do you know him from the planetarium?
Alan Steinfeld
Yes.
Bill Birnes
He’s someone you should definitely interview for, uh, your magazine. Or maybe I’ll interview him for you. Uh, but I’m not sure what he’s saying, but I do believe that if you went through a black hole, you would arrive at a, you would either arrive at a sun, you know, because maybe suns are, are the outpouring of black holes through another dimensional space.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, this is the theory. Now this is a theory because in this theory, in this theory, remember Stephen Hawking said, Stephen the whole premise of, of Bohm’s explicate order, and the whole premise of remote viewing, which has been proven to be a fact now, we know that now, it’s not fiction, it’s fact.
Bill Birnes
I totally believe it. I’ve done it. I’ve proven it to myself.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. Now. The whole premise of remote viewing is it only works because everything that is, was, and will be, are part of the explicate order. There is no past, present, and future, they all exist. Now, this was a direct contradiction of what Hawking said about black holes. He said matter is destroyed in a black hole. And there’s a direct contradiction. So on a practical level, with remote viewing, on another level, of course we’re not. Now the problem is that, um, that, um, we…
Bill Birnes
When Hawking finally revised his theory, and said, “No, um, um, no, matter is not destroyed, you can emerge from the other side of a black hole, maybe in not the same shape, but you can emerge from the other side of a black hole.” When he said that, that brought his theory of black holes into conformity with Einstein and with the practicality of remote viewing.
Alan Steinfeld
In what way did it bring together the prac- the fact that all time is happening at once?
Bill Birnes
That’s right. That matter is not destroyed. That the future exists now.
Alan Steinfeld
Because of the gravitational force of a black hole rips time and space to shreds, actually time itself.
Bill Birnes
That’s what Hawking said, and then he revised this theory to say, no, he doesn’t, no, it doesn’t.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Well, this leads into to Roswell. The Roswell connection. Because didn’t some people say Roswell, the ships from Roswell actually were humans time traveling from the future?
Bill Birnes
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So where does that, you mean all leave us now? What’s Hawking’s, who is the major authority, how is, is he opening up to a more divine understanding of consciousness in the evolution of the universe?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, that’s why Hawking wants to travel into space. Because he’s saying his consciousness will expand once he leaves, once he enters orbital space.
Bill Birnes
Some people say he’s the closest thing to a disembodied consciousness, you know.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. But he’s saying he needs to travel into space, that’s what he’s saying.
Bill Birnes
Well, that’s pretty amazing. Wow. So, uh, Bill, you, I didn’t realize you were such an amazing philosopher and, and spiritual being as well. Because a lot of UFO investigators just get into the really hardcore facts and they, and they steer away from the understanding of consciousness. But I think it, I think if we’re really going to understand what’s going on, consciousness is a major key in the UFO phenomenon.
Alan Steinfeld
I agree. I totally agree.
Bill Birnes
So, maybe on some upcoming shows, we can talk about what happened at Roswell. But where do you think the future of your UFO investigation, UFOs investigations in general, where are we going with it? What, what’s the next step?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, first, we’re connecting the dots. We, we now know that Roswell really happened. And if Roswell really happened, it’s indeed what Walter Haut said in his affidavit is true. That means we are, that means there’s no argument anymore about Roswell. And if there’s no argument anymore about Roswell, then we are in fact visited by an extra- or by a non-terrestrial culture. We’ve been now visited, we’re a part of that universe. That means we have the evidence. We’re dealing with extraterrestrials. And that means that at least part of our government, part of our planet, is doing the dealing. And that means that at some point, that truth will come out.
Bill Birnes
Of course it will. And, um, why do you think it hasn’t come out yet? I mean, what, what is the pro- I mean, because, of course, it would change everything we know about everything, right?
Alan Steinfeld
No, it’s because the government, because the government, what’s in it for the government to disclose? When the government has a reason to disclose, when they can gain something by disclosure, then there’ll be a rationale for disclosure. But I think disclosure is going to happen without the government. I think it’s going to happen on its own. I think it’s already happening. When people say to me, “Why hasn’t the subject been disclosed?” My argument is it already has.
Bill Birnes
But not on the mainstream media.
Alan Steinfeld
Why not? It was all over CNN, it’s all over the internet, right? Is that a David?
Bill Birnes
I mean, it’s everywhere.
Alan Steinfeld
But why would the government want to disclose it? What kind of situation would make them want to disclose?
Bill Birnes
Well, let’s just say that they had to come up with an explanation for why certain things are happening. That would be a reason for this close up. But my thought is, look, the government treats us like children. Things happen before our very eyes, our very, very eyes, and the government, and the government just, you know, they deny it, right? Well, the fact is, at some point, somebody’s just not going to deny it anymore. So it’s not going to be as though there’s going to be disclosure, they’re just not going to deny it. When they stop denying it, then there will have been some kind of a new, um, will be in a new paradigm. But for the time being, you don’t need disclosure because we already know it’s happening.
Alan Steinfeld
But doesn’t it make the government look really bad? I mean, they, Air Force issued that, uh, Roswell case closed book. They said absolutely no proof that there were UFOs. I mean, if they come out now and say, “You know what, we were, we were lying.” I mean, then you could trace it back to, like, “Well, they were lying about the Iraqi war. They were lying about Vietnam.” I mean, what was Vietnam about, anyway? No one even knows what it was about.
Bill Birnes
They don’t, they don’t, they don’t care. You have to realize that the government actually doesn’t, they don’t care.
Alan Steinfeld
They don’t care about people?
Bill Birnes
They don’t care about the truth. They get paid. They’re not worried. They’re getting paid. They don’t care. I mean, it’s not as though there’s some monolithic thing, they just simply, they just don’t care.
Alan Steinfeld
But aren’t we the government? Or actually, is that still some kind of fantasy that Americans have that we are actually the government?
Bill Birnes
Well, I mean, we’re not the government, we hire the government.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, but we hire them. They’re working for us. But that’s, that…
Bill Birnes
Yeah, but it’s changed so much, it’s expanded so much, that it’s really lost touch with the very people they represent.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Right. And especially who’s in the White House now. They are to, you know, I think Cheney said, “I don’t care if America doesn’t want to run Iraq.” He, he just doesn’t care, you know? He’s doing it because he has an agenda.
Bill Birnes
Right. The government follows its own agenda. They don’t care. Right now, the fact is, they don’t need to disclose anything, and they’re not.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Right. So, let’s just, as we, as we close here, just, like, if, people, okay, let’s say it came out, there are UFOs here, we are part of a greater civilization. How does the world look then? What does it look like to you once it’s an accepted fact that we are part of something bigger here? What does that look like?
Bill Birnes
Well, once that happens, suddenly a lot of different pieces fall into shape. What happened at Roswell? What happened at Kingman, Arizona? Uh, what are these things in the sky?
Alan Steinfeld
No, no, but be-, beyond all that, Bill, beyond all that stuff, what does the world itself actually look like to you once this stuff comes out as an accepted fact?
Bill Birnes
Uh, much like Europe was in the 1600s. Let’s go there.
Alan Steinfeld
Let them come here. Let’s see what they’ve got. Really. I see it as an analogy to the discovery of the New World in the 15th and 16th centuries.
Bill Birnes
Right. So it’s, it’s, and, and I do think if they are here and we do open up that, I think it’ll be, uh, an acceleration in science and medicine and healing. I think I think so much gets revealed once things come forward, once that truth…
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah. A whole new technology that becomes available.
Bill Birnes
That’s right. I agree with you. That will happen.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean, assuming we can really make peace with ourselves and with the extraterrestrials, I think we only have to gain from it. I’m not worried about them taking over and invading. I think those are paranoid delusions of people who are afraid of the unknown.
Bill Birnes
Well, you’ve got, you’ve got people who say that’s already happened. That they have taken over, and we’re really, the reason there’s no disclosure is they’d rather have us working for them. And there are people who say there are different groups warring.
Alan Steinfeld
But do you think the aliens have taken over and are in control of the government?
Bill Birnes
I, I, I tend to suspect that there’s more alien presence here than people realize. Yes, I do. I am of that school. I support it by people who claim to be working for the aliens, so there you are.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. But don’t you think ultimately the aliens are a positive force? Of course, there are, like, people they’re good and bad, but I, I mean, my opinion is that they’re ultimately higher, more enlightened beings.
Bill Birnes
Let’s just say that the people who have explained the alien presence to me have said, and I suspect at least more than one of them are actually aliens themselves. They basically said, look, you know, um, the aliens are here, they’ve been here for thousands of years. They’ve guided this planet. They’ve guided humanity. And, um, I would say, you know, I mean, it’s not relevant about disclosure.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. To them, that’s not a relevant argument.
Bill Birnes
But anyway, I think, so, but I do think within the next five to ten years, this will start to come this will be more public knowledge as opposed to people who just really…
Alan Steinfeld
It will be more public knowledge, and I just wonder if the next phase is going to be who’s the alien.
Bill Birnes
Uh-huh. And what do you mean by that?
Alan Steinfeld
Are you an alien? Is she an alien? Is he an alien? I think that’s going to be the next phase.
Bill Birnes
And then what, a kind of prejudice against that?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I don’t know. I just don’t know. That may be something too. They don’t want to divide humanity into various classes, who’s ET, who’s human.
Bill Birnes
Well, I think I’ve had some experiences and I think it runs in my family and I think most of the people at that conference have had experiences and we are we’re I don’t know. We sort of seing the new world first maybe but um…
Alan Steinfeld
Maybe you are. And maybe, and maybe you’re the fortunate ones.
Bill Birnes
Well, or not. I don’t know, you know, we’re definitely the ones that have had some other types of openings. And I mean, I feel like I can contemplate reality in a different way because of whatever experience. I’m not buying the accepted fact of what I’ve been told reality is because of my experiences.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. And that’s a good thing.
Bill Birnes
But okay. Bill, thank you. Thank you. I’ve been talking to…
Alan Steinfeld
Thank you very much for the time, and have a nice weekend, and thanks, Alan. I look forward to seeing you again.
Bill Birnes
Yeah, definitely. I’ll be in touch with you. I’ll call you. I’ll send you some articles.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. Thank you, Alan.
Bill Birnes
Okay, thanks, Bill, for being a guest. I’ve been talking to Bill Birnes, the, um, founder and publisher of UFO Magazine, and um… And I’m just finishing up here. This has been New Realities with Alan Steinfeld. And um, I’m on every week at this time, 6:30, um, 6:30 PM West Coast time, 9:30 East Coast, 9:30 PM East Coast time Sunday night. You can also email me at newrealities@earthlink.net. You can look at my website, newrealities.com or newrealitiestv.com or newrealitiestv.com. I welcome comments and questions and ideas and any, any, any sort of controversial topics along these lines. I’m going to end with this song, who was written by an abductee, Duke Williams. It’s Duke has been a guest on my show. It is Duke Williams and the Extremes, it is the night before the future. Let me just find that song. Thank you for listening. And here we go with the night before the future.
Alan Steinfeld
Alan Steinfeld, New Realities. Thank you for listening. And I’ll hear from you. See you. Be with you next week. Thank you.