New Realities recorded on August 21, 2007
Summary
In this episode of New Realities, host Alan Steinfeld interviews Kira Kay about her humanitarian organization, Hands with Hands, operating in Nepal. They discuss her journey from an initial challenging volunteering experience to establishing self-sustaining orphanages and implementing microcredit programs to empower local women. The conversation explores the profound mutual impact of giving, the importance of cultural exchange, and how grassroots efforts contribute to a global shift in consciousness and human connection.
Transcript
Alan Steinfeld
Welcome to New Realities and New Realities Radio here on bbs.com. This is Alan Steinfeld, and I’ve been hosting the show for the last few weeks. Tonight we have a very special guest. Along with the last few weeks, the theme has really been about how to give back to the planet, how to create new realities from a collective consciousness. Two weeks ago, if you’ve been listening, I talked to people who had an organization called Barack in West Africa saving the indigenous cultures there. Last week I interviewed William Marks about the world water projects and the value of fresh water around the planet. This week I have a very special guest, an old friend of mine, Kira Kay, who has an organization in Nepal called Hands with Hands. She really has devoted her life to giving back to people who really need it, especially in Nepal, especially in a country that doesn’t have the abundant wealth that is here and people are suffering economically. She’s instituted programs that have made a difference and are making a difference. She’ll be talking about that. Also, in terms of the theme of this show, which is about consciousness and opening up spiritually, she very much ties those efforts into the idea of consciousness and how we are evolving as a planetary race. So thank you, Kira.
Kira Kay
Thanks, Alan. It’s great to be here with you.
Alan Steinfeld
I’ve known you a long time, and I know only in the past few years you’ve really devoted your life to this. Do you want to just tell us what you do and actually how you got started going to Nepal and finding out how you can help?
Kira Kay
I’d love to, Alan, because this is actually a big part of what I feel I’m doing now in the big picture point of view what you talk about, the consciousness, and why I was happy to talk with you today. What started for me, I’ll share more of my story because it will be the starting point.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, for people to relate into, to hook in, who might just be hearing, how do you get involved in a global project?
Kira Kay
Exactly. I think this is something that will probably resonate for many people. More and more we hear about the mess that the planet is in. The question is, what do we do? It comes back, and this was true for me, what can I do? I can’t do much. What’s the point? The feeling of helplessness with that, and combined with that, feeling the pressure that I should do something. One day I just thought, I’m going to do something. I had been running a meditation group for a longer time by donation on a Monday night. I decided that I’d try and do something constructive with the money I collected. I had only about $350. I heard from a friend of a friend about an orphanage in Nepal. So I got on a plane.
Alan Steinfeld
You never went to Nepal before?
Kira Kay
I’d been before about six years previous. So I was aware that there was a lot of poverty there. But I didn’t really know anything. I didn’t really know anybody. I had the name of this orphanage, and I just got on a plane and I went. My first experience was disastrous. I arrived at this orphanage, it was very obvious there was quite a lot of financial corruption, there was abuse with the children. This was not my ideal circumstance, and I felt very helpless. Through this I met some Nepali people who were really trying to make a difference in their way. I started conversing with them, and I came back a year later. One of them came to me with the idea of what he called a self-sustaining orphanage. When he shared the idea I thought, that can’t work, it’s not possible with my mental image of what an orphanage is. The idea is having enough land, getting capital to have enough land, to have a building, to have enough land for growing vegetables, a cow or a buffalo, some other income producing type of projects like growing chickens, fish farms, beehives, mushroom growing, to give the home enough stability so they have their own food production, what they grow for themselves, and a bit of income source for extras that they don’t grow. It also involves women who have perhaps lost their husbands or their husbands left them and they have a child to raise, they become the live-in carers. Then Nepali volunteers from the local village become the mentors who support the overseeing the activities, giving guidance, and giving obviously the practical advice and the network for different supplies and different support. I supported Dependra, my Nepali friend, with his idea.
Alan Steinfeld
This was an original idea to be self-sufficient as an orphanage?
Kira Kay
As an orphanage, to be self-sufficient. So that it, and the reality is they’re not fully self-sufficient, but they are the primary basis. So if there were no donations ever to come in, they would actually be able to provide the food and a very basic subsistence living. This is a very different perspective than the normal institutional models.
Alan Steinfeld
That get money from the government, is that what you’re saying?
Kira Kay
Well, in Nepal there isn’t a structure, like we have in the West where we have institutions and there’s special funding for institutions like orphanages. In places like Nepal and India, most of Africa, most of South America, there isn’t that type of situation. So it relies on aid organizations or individuals. For most situations, we still think in the old paradigm of the more institutional-based, donor-funded, in some respects hierarchical organization of an orphanage. Someone sets it up, they’re the founders, they’re the donors. If something should happen to them, everything crumbles down. Dependra, my Nepali friend, had seen this happen a lot in Nepal, and because of the civil unrest they had in the country over a number of years, he’d also seen a lot of disruption that happened for the children. His idea was to create things so that they’re more organic and more self-sufficient. The first one is now four and a half years old, and we have three in operation now, we’re about to start the fourth. They have up until 20 children, we keep it up to 20 so they can stay sustainable. The most recent one, which is almost a year old, we have 14 children because it takes time to build up to a working level, and we’re about to start the fourth one in October.
Alan Steinfeld
Is there a reason there are orphans often in Nepal? Is there a reason about the economy? I mean there are orphans everywhere, but is there something about Nepal?
Kira Kay
One thing has been, over the last 12 years, it’s recently become more settled, but there had been a lot of civil unrest. That has changed, but the disruption of families, the poverty has meant that there is a lot of death of one family member. There is also still the reality that with lack of education, lack of facilities, families end up being larger than they can actually provide for. So there is also what are not necessarily orphans in the sense of having lost parents, but the families can’t provide for them.
Alan Steinfeld
And so also there’s a problem in Nepal with child workers, because there are so many children. Are you working with that kind of cause as well?
Kira Kay
I’m not working directly with that, but one of the things that I’m doing with the organization that I’ve helped set up, Hands with Hands, is to help link with other like-minded organizations. One of the principles for me isn’t about doing good. It’s about how can we as individuals make a difference by feeling inside us what are we drawn to do. So I was drawn with this idea, and I’ve also now got involved in other projects. Someone else has been drawn, and you know someone who’s involved in Nepal around the child welfare. There are other people in Africa, in India, in various parts and other countries that I’m connecting with now. They’re drawn there. They have a feeling. This to me is one of the points that I would love your listeners and the wider world actually to get more of a handle on, is if we all follow our intuitive impulse, we do make a difference to ourselves and to whoever then we’re in contact with.
Alan Steinfeld
And make a difference, I feel, to these children who may not have had a chance. One child could come up with cures for terminal illness. One child is worth everything.
Kira Kay
Yeah. And this is, I’ve got a very good example of that. One doctor I’ve met in Nepal, he was sponsored by someone to do his medical training. He went to the Ukraine, he then went to Boston and studied pediatric cardiology, he then got a fellowship to Toronto University for further studies in pediatric cardiology. He then decided to go back to Nepal and set up the first heart hospital there. His name is Bhagawan Koirala, and he is an exceptional being. What he’s brought to the hospital system, not just the heart care, but to the hospital system in general in Nepal, is unbelievable. This is one person who got a chance, exactly as you say.
Alan Steinfeld
But what I’m getting from what you’re saying is that you’re an individual, didn’t have an organization at all, just went to Nepal with a feeling to give back and help, and you created something. Anyone who’s listening who gets the impulse, can go and help people who need something, they can do that.
Kira Kay
The thing is to realize is you don’t need to know everything, because none of us ever do. For me, it’s been a massive learning experience. What I’ve realized, my impulse to give and be a support has also been a getting back to myself. I’ve received so much in terms of what I’ve learned literally from other people’s creativity, their initiatives.
Alan Steinfeld
You mean the Nepali people?
Kira Kay
The Nepali people and other Western people I’ve met now that I’m involved in this, I tend to meet other like-minded people. Of course, I have hundreds and hundreds of inspiring stories of people who just decide they want to do something.
Alan Steinfeld
Like what? Can you say?
Kira Kay
I have one Japanese friend, Neo, she was 18 at the time when the big earthquakes happened in Turkey. She just got on a plane and went there. She didn’t speak the language. This is back in the early 90s, I think, or mid 90s. She just got on a plane and went there. She didn’t have anything. She went to the Japanese Embassy, and she just ended up handing out blankets, handing out food, handing out smiles, and she spent several months there. That was just from an impulse.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, what you’re saying now, and what I’m getting a bigger picture of, is that we, because of things like the internet and global news, we are now seeing we’re all really connected to each other, and we can all make a difference wherever we live in everybody’s life. We can come together as one planet.
Kira Kay
And the thing is, some of your listeners may think, well, I don’t want to leave my country. You don’t need to. There are numerous opportunities to give right in your own street. It can be an elderly friend or a neighbor who you haven’t even met before, who might have a handicap or they might be elderly, just to spend maybe an hour a week or taking them shopping or just checking in on them. These types of things. In London, at Starbucks boards, they have these little posters which help organize visiting elderly people in your area and linking you with somebody. I have a friend who’s volunteering with an autistic child of a friend of his. So many opportunities if you just decide to look and say, I want to make a difference, how can I do it?
Alan Steinfeld
It’s beautiful what you’re saying, and I see the chance for really a new planet to come into being that functions on this level.
Kira Kay
Well, the name of your program, Alan, the thing you’re passionate about is New Realities. And I really connect with this. This is why I’ve set up a website, handswithhands.org, to help be a platform of support. On one hand, what I’m doing in Nepal is my personal journey. But the whole idea is, how can I support other people to do their thing? One of those things is we’ve now got a volunteer program which is in Nepal, but I’m also now linking with other organizations in India and Guatemala, which is a transparent thing. We as an organization don’t handle any of the money, but we help connect with other volunteer indigenous organizations to help people go and have an experience, go and try something.
Alan Steinfeld
It’s about having experience and also benefiting other people. Tell people how to get in touch with you and donations if you want.
Kira Kay
First off, they can just go to www.handswithhands.org. There will be information to be able to contact me directly on the contact page.
Alan Steinfeld
If people want to give donations or volunteer, they can do that through the site?
Kira Kay
The volunteering side is very clear on the website and they can sign up from now. The donation side, we will have that set up at some point in the near future. So far it’s been, and this is another point I’ve really noticed, is it’s not always about money. Of course, in third world countries where financial capital is really not very present, finances can really and are a very valuable support. But one of the things I’ve learned is it’s not just about money. The other thing is I’ve also learned there’s a lot of people who have money to give, and some of them are happy to give it. But what I feel is, if you’re listening and you want to give finances, my guess is you’ve got a feeling in there to give. My encouragement is, don’t just look for an organization to give to. Look and feel how can you get more intimately involved.
Alan Steinfeld
Like going there?
Kira Kay
Yeah, or something else. For instance, a doctor from Australia who decided he emailed me and he wanted to sponsor a rural hospital project. Coincidentally, an email arrived from my Nepali friends to help translate into English a proposal for a small hospital. That was just over a year ago. The hospital is nearly finished being built. I suggested to the doctor and his wife that they come to Nepal, which they did in March. Because I said, if you’re making an impact here in this village, I want you to have an experience, to see for yourself what it is that’s happening, for you to feel, and for them to meet you and to feel, because it’s about connection.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, it’s not just, here’s the money and do what you want with it. It actually connects people and the planet more.
Kira Kay
Much more. And now what’s evolved from this is the doctor was so inspired and he was very touched by the creativity of the local village and their vision, he’s gone back to Australia and he’s now setting up a volunteer program with doctors that he knows to come back and support educating the rural doctors. That’s an initiative that’s coming. This then is not about money, it’s about knowledge, it’s about connecting, and it’s about being with this other community and what he can share of himself, of his knowledge, of his skills, of his background. This is what I’m trying to convey. It’s not just about giving of money. Yes, we need that. But the most important thing is giving of yourself.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, and this is where it ties in, because I’m here with Kira in Harbin Hot Springs, California. We’re here at a workshop which is about consciousness. We’re sharing a level of being together which evolves each of us to be with each other in a different way, in a more collective way, in a more giving back way, in a way where we can support each other’s vision. I think that’s why we’re here to do at this place. Can you talk about your projects in terms of consciousness and giving and being with people in a different way? What are you taking from being wherever we are here and what we’re dealing with back to being with people in a different way?
Kira Kay
This is a great question, Alan, because this is something I really hope that I can convey not only to your listeners but also to anyone that I meet and anyone who is wanting to give back. Particularly going to somewhere like a developing country. Because often you’re dealing with a different culture, a different knowledge base. What I’ve seen as a handicap is Western people coming to such a situation with thinking that they know best. So what I’ve gained from these experiences and these workshops is about being more tuned in and more sensitive, and being with these people. So when I go out to the villages, I’m with them. We sit down and we drink tea, and I’m with them. I hear, and I invite, what’s their vision? What do they see? What do they feel is their need here? And how can I be a part of that? How can we be creative together? So I’m not coming in with a good idea. In fact, most of the time, I don’t have an idea. I’m just there and I’m with them. We just hang out, and maybe nothing comes from that meeting. We might come again, and we might just walk for a few days in the mountains, and we might just hang out, and then an inspiration might come.
Alan Steinfeld
But maybe you can give the listeners a sense of what their reality is like. You fly into Kathmandu, and it’s a very different experience just that.
Kira Kay
You fly into Kathmandu, and it’s a very different experience just that. The Nepali people are a different race. They’re very transparent people. You’re met with friendly smiles. You’re definitely met with a level of chaos, so the immigration and so forth works very differently. But they’re looking to support you, they’d love you to be there.
Alan Steinfeld
So then you go into the villages. There’s a small village, right?
Kira Kay
There’s a number of different villages I go to. There are different levels of poverty in Nepal. It’s pretty poor. In relative, nearly all the Western people that I’ve supported to come to Nepal have never been to a developing country, have initially been very shocked. Shocked by the poverty just in Kathmandu, which is, relative to the rest of Nepal, quite rich. But just in terms of seeing the basic things, seeing the dwellings, seeing the clothing, things are a very different point of view.
Alan Steinfeld
And in the very remote villages where we do have some of the microcredit programs going, the standard of living is incredibly survival-based. They don’t have a house, they have what we would call a shack, which might be the size of a king-size bed. They live with six children. But the pride that they will show that to you. And this is my home, and the joy that they’re inviting you in. They might only be able to provide one meal a day. But you, as a visitor, they will want to give to.
Alan Steinfeld
So what do you give them?
Kira Kay
I’ve always learned I carry a backpack and it’s always full of goodies. Not Western goodies, particularly not out in that sort of area because it’s not, I don’t consider that balanced.
Alan Steinfeld
So what do you give them?
Kira Kay
I’ll take things like rice and fruit and vegetables. So I’m aware that they’re going to use the last of what they’ve got to give me a nice meal, and they’ll use the best of what they’ve got. I can leave a nice package of rice and some nice fruit and vegetables, it might be fruit and vegetables that they can’t get there in that area, so it’s a nice gift for them.
Alan Steinfeld
But when I’m interested, you go to these smaller villages and you talk to the people. What is the reality that they’re living? Do they have dreams to leave the villages and go to the US or dreams to be doctors and teachers? What is their vision and what do they want in their lives?
Kira Kay
Alan, it’s so similar to anywhere in the world. Some of them obviously don’t have the knowledge of opportunities in the more very remote areas. But they still have the desires of, some of the younger ones, especially young men wanting to go join the army, wanting to go to the big city, wanting to start a business. Very similar to any country town basically. There is more education now in Nepal, since the 70s there’s been the start of education, as a consequence more people have shifted to the city. The younger people are starting more businesses, and they’re going back and forth to the village, so there’s more knowledge and sharing and information that’s happening. It’s an interesting process to watch because there is also this Western influence as the media comes in, which is a combination of television, radios have come down from China, so everywhere in remote areas have radios. Television’s very cheap, although there’s often not reception in remote areas. But these influences, so you do have those with the dreams of the US being the golden dream. My heart sinks a bit because I feel what’s conveyed on the television is a very different picture. I helped a Nepali friend come to Europe last year. Partly because he really had it, it was such a dream, he was going to make it happen and probably get his family in debt, so a few of us Western people put in together and paid his ticket and set up places for him to stay. He had an amazing journey, and he went home and he went, ‘I had no idea it was like that. I’m so glad to be back in Nepal.’
Alan Steinfeld
Why, what was it?
Kira Kay
He said the waste, and one of the most interesting things is he said people don’t connect. He called me up one night, it was about 11 o’clock at night, and he snuck into the kitchen and called on the telephone of people he was staying at. He said, ‘I’m so lonely, I’m so scared.’ I said, ‘What’s up?’ He said, ‘Everyone’s gone to their room and I’m in this big room all on my own.’ It just clicked for me. In Nepal, they’re very tactile, they’re very together. You don’t have a bed on your own. You sleep all lying together.
Alan Steinfeld
And you miss it, I suppose.
Kira Kay
Exactly, he missed it. The thing he noticed is that people didn’t talk to one another, and that he met these different people in Europe that had arguments with their parents and weren’t talking to them, and weren’t really taking care of their money or working, or the waste of food and the waste of resources. It was shocking, utterly shocking to him.
Alan Steinfeld
It’d be a great movie to follow someone around from their idealization of the West to the reality of the West and just kind of see. So then talk about the cultural exchange program. You sometimes bring friends over with you and that’s sort of an education for them. How can people do that even?
Kira Kay
The first few times it happened was very spontaneous. For quite some years I kept it quite private what I was doing in Nepal, and then I mentioned it to a few friends and then one of them spontaneously decided to come, and then she ended up bringing two others. It was very nourishing for me to actually open up and have my friends know what I’m doing. It actually really created the bigger picture of me sharing to the wider world, the globe, that you can make a difference. Now what I’ve actually done, and again people can get information on the website, www.handswithhands.org, of what I’m calling inspirational charity treks, which are done twice a year. Because Nepal is famous for its magnificent Himalayan mountains, you can’t walk over there without being blown away. The mountains have a presence. I think there’s no coincidence that many of the sages have supposedly sat in the caves in the Himalayas. There’s an energy there, and it supports stillness. Of course just walking, one step at a time up the mountain, is a meditation in itself. We combine the trek with visiting different projects, orphanages, hospital projects, villages. So that people can see for themselves what you can do. And the Nepali people are very proud to show what they’re doing, because it’s them doing it. I’m a support, I’m not doing it, they’re doing it. And I’m with them, I’m their friend, being a help, being a hand that says here, here’s my hand, I’ve got knowledge and I’ve got finances that can help you, let’s work together.
Alan Steinfeld
And so then let’s talk about the microcredit thing that you study, because I think that could be a very big inspiration to many people listening in many areas.
Kira Kay
Microcredit, it’s a very simple practice, and it was developed by a fellow called Muhammad Yunus, who got the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006. An extraordinary man, if anyone has the opportunity to hear him speak, do so.
Alan Steinfeld
What’s his name again?
Kira Kay
Muhammad Yunus. Y-U-N-U-S. I think it is. He’s a Bangladeshi man, and he set up an organization called the Grameen Bank, which is now most famous for microcredit. The principle of microcredit is giving a small loan, between $100 and $150 generally, at least initially, and charging some interest. It’s to give the receiver, be it someone in a remote area or even in a city area, someone in poverty. Someone who wouldn’t be able to enter a bank let alone take a loan, and whose only other option of borrowing money is usually through loan sharks, and they usually assess it between 50 to 80% interest. This is an opportunity for them to have a loan, and the programs, not only our program, but most microcredit programs, are about supporting, about education. The loan officer operates not only as someone who facilitates the handling of the money and the repayment of the loan, but also supports the person to identify a potential capital-producing or income-producing prospect. Like some of ours include buying goats and then breeding them so they have more goats, or chickens, or pigs.
Alan Steinfeld
So you’d make a loan to like a farmer you’re saying?
Kira Kay
Usually it’s not to a farmer, usually they don’t even have a farm. We work actually all with women. Not all microcredits are with women, although predominantly in the area of microcredit it does seem to end up with the women because they’re the ones doing most of the work in the poverty areas.
Alan Steinfeld
So someone like you went to do it, there’s an organization that does microcredit?
Kira Kay
No, it’s my friend Dependra and I. We identified someone who had some experience in microcredit down in a remote area called near Chitwan in the south of Nepal. We talked to this person so that they were on the same wavelength as us, because we wanted the program to really also support community building, and we wanted to be in tune. And then Dependra and the loan officer went to the first village and they had a discussion with the village committee and said this is what we would like to propose. We would like to invite 25 women from your village to be a part of this microcredit program. And so we employed somebody who does specific training to come and spend a day in the village and just give a discussion on what is microcredit. What is it, what are the benefits, how does it work? From that we had more than 25 women want to be involved, and then that starts then a relationship, the loan officer would go out once a week and meet with the women. Slowly, slowly each one has taken a loan. Now, it took nearly 12 months for all of them to take a loan. They weren’t ready straight away.
Alan Steinfeld
So they took a loan of $100 or $150?
Kira Kay
To buy a goat, or buying chickens, or buying pigs.
Alan Steinfeld
And how long are the loans for? Did they pay back monthly?
Kira Kay
The loan would be for a period of eight months, or 12 months, or six months, depending on the woman’s situation. So for each woman it’s different, and the loan officer works one-on-one with each one to help them feel confident that it felt right for them to do that.
Alan Steinfeld
So they then pay this back. And they have a little passbook, and they learn about money.
Kira Kay
They learn about money, they learn about building a business. About how to earn income, to understand about the principles of loaning money, and making money, and what is profit. We also in our particular program, it was on the request of the women, offer a literacy program as well. We now do that with all of our microcredit programs.
Alan Steinfeld
So it’s education, and then you’re changing the base level of living in these communities by educating women and starting basically a foundation.
Kira Kay
The simple life stays very much the same. It’s not that they, but these are giving the people in the more extreme levels of poverty the opportunity, that, you know, people might be getting in a neighboring village that just had more resources, for instance. It can be life-changing.
Alan Steinfeld
I understand. I think that’s could be a very big inspiration to many people listening in many areas. Are big companies doing this for profit?
Kira Kay
I fully understand your skepticism. I went to New York with that. To be honest, I was very pleasantly surprised that all but one person I met in that environment was about giving back. It is about giving back. There is a financial incentive, you know, if you talk to any businessman or woman who’s really been self-made, and they want to invest in a project that’s going to work. So this is why they’re attracted to microcredit. Because you have such a high success rate and you’re changing communities, not just changing one individual.
Alan Steinfeld
I hear the interest rate is actually high, like 9, 10, 12%?
Kira Kay
It depends on the organization. We’re charging between 9 and 12% for what we’re doing. Some organizations I know do charge quite a lot more, but they do charge substantially less than the loan sharks in the area. Because you know, interest has a whole weird thing anyway that I don’t quite get, I don’t think it’s necessary. But there is the wages of the loan officers to pay, which is why the interest is charged to create sustainability. The loan is repaid and is back in the pot for more loans to come out. But somewhere the wages for these indigenous people, these are local people who are paying for the literacy course, who are paying for the loan officers, and it works much better when it’s local people.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, because I’m just a little suspicious because these big companies are involved in it. In the beginning of the program we talked about giving back, so are these companies doing it to make a profit or are they doing it to really give back and help lift the planet?
Kira Kay
I fully understand your skepticism. I went to New York with that. To be honest, I was very pleasantly surprised that all but one person I met in that environment was about giving back. It is about giving back. There is a financial incentive, you know, if you talk to any businessman or woman who’s really been self-made, and they want to invest in a project that’s going to work. So this is why they’re attracted to microcredit. Not just so much that they’re going to make a profit on it, they just see it as a sensible way to give back.
Alan Steinfeld
And so how can people find out more about what microcredit is about?
Kira Kay
If you Google microcredit, you’ll get oodles of information. It’s a fantastic global revolution. This is an interesting one, now don’t quote me on my facts here because I’m not 100%, but there is something like the women of the world do something like 80% of the work in the world. They earn less than 15% of the income in the world, and they own less than 1% of the capital. I might not be 100% correct on my numbers there, but it’s pretty extreme. Now, at the moment, there’s about 80 to 85% of the recipients of microcredit are women. I find it a very interesting turnaround that now that there is this big money, which is coming predominantly actually from the male development, is actually now coming to support women coming into empowerment. Coming into their strength, coming into education, coming into their creativity, because that’s what small businesses are. It’s their creativity, it’s educating them to realize that they can make a difference.
Alan Steinfeld
Is this why the guy won the Nobel Peace Prize? Just for this very thing?
Kira Kay
More from the point of view that the empowerment, and bringing people, as you say, to another level of consciousness. So if people are engaged in their creativity and possibility, they’re not going to be thinking about causing mischief and uprisings, because they’re going to want to work together, they’re going to want to support each other, because otherwise their business isn’t going to work. And so we really start to build a global village.
Alan Steinfeld
It is a global village in that way. It’s about one-on-one support and it’s about working together. Most of the microcredit organizations work in a more community-based orientation. The recipients of the loans are often co-responsible for each other’s loans. We operate that way, and we break them down into groups of five where they’re each co-responsible. This creates support.
Alan Steinfeld
So does this go with the orphanages? How does this microcredit stuff in Nepal particularly work with what you’re doing with the orphanages?
Kira Kay
It’s not directly related. My friend Dependra, who was the initiator of the orphanages, it was his idea about the self-sustaining model. When I told him about microcredit and what I’d heard, he was very enthusiastic and he said, let’s start, let’s do one. I went, sure, let’s go for it.
Alan Steinfeld
So what did you do?
Kira Kay
We literally contacted a friend that he knew had some experience in microcredit down in Chitwan. Then he and this friend went to the village and talked to them, and we started from there.
Alan Steinfeld
You started to give loans to people?
Kira Kay
We started in one village with 25 women and we’re now about to start the fourth village.
Alan Steinfeld
Did you give 25 loans of like 100?
Kira Kay
Yes, but not all at the same time. It took the women time to have the confidence that it felt right for them to do that.
Alan Steinfeld
And how are these women, I mean, because it had to be changing because it’s something totally new in a tradition that’s probably 3, 4,000 years old, right? It’s sort of the end of a tradition in a good way because as we hear the old doesn’t really work because it doesn’t support evolution, but it’s the end of something as these women come into their own ability. How have the women themselves changed because of this?
Kira Kay
It’s been very touching, Alan. When I was there recently, I was really struck by their gratefulness. What they were sharing with me was, at first they couldn’t get why, and they knew that I was a part of the support and they were speaking directly to me and to Dependra. They said, we couldn’t get at first why you wanted to help us. We kept looking for the catch. We were suspicious of you. Now we’ve met you three times and we’ve known you for two years, things have gotten better for us. And then one of the women came out and she showed me her notebook from the literacy program and it was full of this beautiful handwriting, Nepali, not English, and they’re learning about sums and mathematics. She had tears in her eyes and she was thrusting the book under my nose saying, look, I can sign my name. And before they only could do thumbprints. The sense of empowerment. The other thing they shared is that before, they wouldn’t have been allowed in a bank. I didn’t realize this. They said, this is one of the reasons we were suspicious, because we aren’t even allowed in a bank, we’re considered untouchable, and you’ve come out and you want to help us. And they showed us the goats and they showed us the chickens. We ended up having a feast, which was a little interesting because I’m vegetarian, so I make it really clear I don’t eat meat.
Alan Steinfeld
Do they eat meat in Nepal? I guess they do.
Kira Kay
Not much, but they do. They don’t eat cow because mostly they’re Hindu. But they eat goat and chicken. But only on special occasions. Mostly it’s vegetarian.
Alan Steinfeld
You know the surprise about why do you want to give to me, I mean, that’s common, that’s what we’re seeing here. People often say, well, why am I getting all this? I say that, you know. It’s so unusual to be given to unconditionally without strings.
Kira Kay
It’s a human thing, you know. To receive unconditional giving is still quite a rarity on the planet.
Alan Steinfeld
But you know Marshall Rosenberg who started Nonviolent Communication, he says there’s a human need to give to other people. That’s a need not just to receive life, but we have a need to give and serve people.
Kira Kay
And this to me is a very important part, what I would love your listeners to connect with, is we have this need. And in that giving, when we respond to that need, we receive so much, and that’s what people don’t really get yet, Alan.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, they don’t get it because it hasn’t been a capitalistic society. What’s good, what can I get? We don’t have an understanding of these underlying human needs that we all have to just give. I mean, we have that.
Kira Kay
Exactly. This is why I set up the volunteer program. To give people an opportunity to just, if they can come for a month, just to have an opportunity to try something different.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, and I think it’s reflective hopefully of the change of consciousness that’s coming to the planet. Do you get that?
Kira Kay
I think that’s why I feel inspired in what I’m doing and touched. Because I feel this whole journey in Nepal for me on a personal level feels like I’ve been in training. It’s helped me to see more about this so I can share more with others. As you know, I’ve been very committed to the whole topic of consciousness for many years.
Alan Steinfeld
Both of us, we grew up on it pretty much.
Kira Kay
Pretty much. So for me, my hope or my wish or my gut feeling is we are in a process of change, and as we both know there are many things happening on the planet that are pretty messy and it might get more messy.
Alan Steinfeld
It might get more messy, but the image I get, did you have something else?
Kira Kay
Well, I was just going to say, when we really know how to give, we’re going to be there for one another. We’re going to, as you say, create a new reality because we’ve already learned how to give. Those of us who have practiced in it, we’re going to be there to support others.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, and also receiving as well. We have to also learn to receive, and that’s also a hard thing. Why? I can’t give and we can’t receive. No wonder we’re stuck in a mess. But the image I get with you doing these programs and many people is as if there’s like a wound on the planet and these people going and forming is like a healing in separate parts, like a scab forming on a wound, and eventually it comes together and there’s a healing as people start to give relief to people who are our brothers and sisters and we start to bring everyone to the same level of consciousness in a way. There’s a healing on the planet itself of this wounded humanity.
Kira Kay
I connect with the imagery that you say. I don’t connect so much with the woundedness. It’s a mess like you said. But the thing that I feel very passionately about is many of these people in the poverty situations have actually a lot more to give us in our so-called sophisticated Western environment. And I think that’s a really important part. If people take away the image that we need to take care of the homeless and the wounded and these poor people, we’re going to miss the point.
Alan Steinfeld
So what do they have to give? I mean you sort of mentioned it before, but…
Kira Kay
They’ve got their sense of community, they’ve got their life. They’re living. They’ve got the spark in their eyes. They’ve got nothing and they’ve got everything. Right. Just like that woman coming over and saying, ‘Look, I can sign my name.’ Exactly. And they’ve got that joy. So many people have got so much here in the West, and you and I both know people who are extremely wealthy and are not happy. They have everything they can think of and more money than they could ever spend, but they don’t have that spark in their eye.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, then how can we start a cultural exchange program where they do give us? How can they give us?
Kira Kay
That’s my volunteer program. And also the inspirational charity treks. You go out, you walk in the villages, you’re out in the Himalayas, you’re staying at lodges run by Nepali people. You get to just see how simple their life is and how wonderful that can be. That we have so much extra stuff because we think we need it, we need it, we need a new car, we need a new mobile phone. To see the things that make them laugh and the joy and what I call the natural spirituality. The enjoyment of being alive.
Alan Steinfeld
Does that not change when they get into microfinances and business? Is there a way of keeping that, you feel?
Kira Kay
Well, I feel it’s more intrinsic in their culture. So I think this is where there’s a balance. So if we try and make them just into capitalism, that’s not going to work. This is why the cultural exchange program, and this is something I’m passionate about, and this is why I’ve set up an organization to help with the education, more educating the Western people to be honest.
Alan Steinfeld
To be honest in…
Kira Kay
To help them to see more about themselves and what they’re doing when they so-called give. To see where they’re giving it from, but also what are they receiving. To support them to realize that, and I in an interview whenever anyone volunteers, I’m talking to them about going with an open mind. Go with the fact that you’ve got your upbringing, your knowledge, your education, and your view on life, go in with an open mind. What are you also going to get there? I think that’s very important.
Alan Steinfeld
So it’s not just here I’m giving the money, it’s like you did to these doctors who wanted to build the hospital. You brought them over there. And what did they get? The people who wanted to give, what did they come away with?
Kira Kay
They came away with feeling really touched. One thing about the Nepali people, when they do celebration they do it wonderfully. You get covered in red tika and flower leis, and you’re celebrated. You know, really, it’s something I can’t really convey in words, but you’re celebrated. So they came away with a sense of being honored, being respected. But more than that, they came away realizing that these are people. They’re creative, they’re intelligent. They might lack certain things, you know, they might lack certain financial things, but they don’t lack spirit. They don’t lack initiative, they don’t lack creativity, they don’t lack desire, they don’t lack imagination. They don’t lack the sense of, we want to have ourselves, we want to have more in our lives, we want to really support our community.
Alan Steinfeld
They can teach us to be more human in the sense where we’ve lost… so let me just ask you, because we’re just sort of running out of time, and we have a few more minutes… I’ve been talking to Kira Kay who has the organization handswithhands.org… On a personal level, you’ve lived with the rich and famous, let’s say, and then you’ve been all over the world… you’ve lived with the very poor and you’ve been there in the poverty. You see the most extreme range of humanity, so what do you do with that? How does that touch you as far as the human experience, what it is to be here incarnate? What do you get from that huge range that you’ve experienced? Do you know what I’m asking?
Kira Kay
I do, Alan, and actually for me it’s been amazing. I feel very gifted and blessed that I actually have seen both ends of the spectrum. And one’s not better than the other.
Alan Steinfeld
Because you know there’s people who are loved by millions, billions, and then you’re living with these people who probably haven’t seen more than their village.
Kira Kay
In one sense there’s a quality there that’s amazing and touching, and the sensitivity with that. It comes back to the basic point, we’re all people. The person, I’m just flashing on the picture of this one woman in this tiny little shack, so pridefully inviting me in and showing me where she sleeps and where her goat sleeps, and literally this shack wasn’t bigger than a king-size bed. I was so touched. And yet when I’m with some of the rich and famous people and the successful people in the world, their humanity, their humans, their joys, their pains, in one sense on a material level yes there’s this huge difference. On a human level, it’s the same.
Alan Steinfeld
I get that. Thank you because I get that. Yeah, it’s like, look how I’ve decorated my fancy bedroom is the same emotion as look what I did with my little shack. And that’s what’s beautiful. It’s not to judge one end of the spectrum versus the other. It’s all humanity and it’s all the same experience in a way.
Kira Kay
From the internal level it is. The outer of course is a bit different, a straw mat versus a nice comfortable mattress is two different realities to sleep on. But the people you meet in both places are people. And that to me says it all.
Alan Steinfeld
And that’s sort of what I was curious about because you’ve met the range of humanity and you’ve seen that it’s all the same. It’s all people experiencing emotion and feeling and trying to live their life in the best way they know how.
Kira Kay
And it makes me more certain of the fact that I just love people.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, and you are doing an amazing thing. I mean I see you just light up when you talk about this, as opposed to your own dramas or whatever. But when you talk about giving back, your face looks different, there’s a whole ‘nother energy about you. Really, I’ve never seen this part of you come forward and I’ve known you for 15 years.
Kira Kay
It’s been a huge gift in my life, Alan, and it’s had a much deeper personal shifting level for me because exactly as you say, my dramas have become insignificant. On a personal consciousness level, this choice to give back more and to really look at humanity, at the extremes of humanity, and what can I do, has helped me to disconnect from the mind crap and just to get more real. Like what’s important?
Alan Steinfeld
What is important? The stories in my mind are not important. Being here with this person, connecting with them, and what is it that I can give of them, what can I receive from them? Because when I receive them, when I hear their story, when I am connecting with them, that there’s something that they’re experiencing because I’m listening, I’m being there.
Kira Kay
And you’re experiencing life through them, through their connection. And that’s what I think really the purpose of incarnation and human form is to gather experience and feeling and emotion and to then share it with each other.
Alan Steinfeld
So what I encourage all of your listeners out there is just to look for something in your life, even if it’s your next-door neighbor, taking their dog for a walk. Just something really small, do something, make a difference where you can. It feels really good. It can be life-changing.
Kira Kay
It feels good to the giver. I mean you make a difference with someone and it’s like wow. You know I get the example, just stopping and asking someone for directions if you’re lost in the car, the person you ask feels really good if they know where they’re going, it makes them feel good in order to give back. It’s like you’ve needed something and they’ve needed something and this is humanity coming together.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s right, we need one another. We need, and I think we are coming into a new reality.
Kira Kay
Well, Alan, good on you for creating a program like this where you keep sharing about the possibility of new realities.
Alan Steinfeld
Thank you, Kira Kay. I’ve been talking to Kira Kay. Just a little rundown on your organization, where to contact you again.
Kira Kay
Yep, they can contact me on www.handswithhands.org, all the contact information is on there as well as some basic information about the projects in Nepal and the volunteering.
Alan Steinfeld
And the projects just range from…
Kira Kay
Projects range from the self-sustaining children’s homes, which is an innovative program for orphanages. It involves hospital projects, education initiatives, and involves the microcredit. More information on the website.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. No, I’m just still overwhelmed by hearing you, one person saying I want to do something to give back, and creating this organization. It’s fantastic.
Kira Kay
Well I’ve had a lot of help from my friends and my Nepali friends and some other friends who have supported and encouraged me. Encourage me more to follow my feeling, to follow that impulse. And even when I’ve been there in Nepal going, what am I doing here, for them to be on the other end of the phone and say, ‘It’s okay, you’re feeling good there? Fine.’
Alan Steinfeld
And I think because of your example, and I think it will, more people will do that and say, you know, I’m just going to go and help people.
Kira Kay
Wherever it is.
Alan Steinfeld
Because that actually does change the vibration of the planet. That whole way of looking at things in your life and feeling a connection to somebody else and saying by giving your connection and the two create another vibration.
Kira Kay
That’s right.
Alan Steinfeld
And I think we’re really coming together as a planet. I see a new reality. Well, thank you so much and you’re going to Nepal soon?
Kira Kay
I’ll be there in October, November.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, to set up another orphanage?
Kira Kay
Yes, we’ve got the fourth orphanage that’ll be underway, so I’m going to go and be there and be a part of that.
Alan Steinfeld
And are they all around Kathmandu or where?
Kira Kay
No, they’re scattered all over Nepal. We try and decentralize them.
Alan Steinfeld
Ah, nice, nice, nice. So thank you so much for being a guest here on New Realities.
Kira Kay
Thanks, Alan.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, and I’ll be in touch with you and maybe update and maybe you can come back when you get back or even if you’re in England I can call you from England. And hopefully people will contact Kira and just find out about what’s happening and maybe go on one of their visitor programs or find your own initiative. I’m interested to hear about the kind of inspirations people have from listening to a program like this and see where they are giving back. I really want to thank Don at bbsradio.com for giving this opportunity to put this information out there. And bbsradio.com is a great place to get this alternative information because you’re not really going to see this on the front page of a newspaper, how to give back like this because they’re concerned about something else. So this is Alan Steinfeld for New Realities and if you want to reach me, my email is newrealities@earthlink.net. I have a website newrealities.tv. You can also watch my program New Realities television every Monday night at mnn.org 9 p.m. New York Time Monday nights. And I’m open to feedback, I’m curious about what people think about these programs, check the archives on BBS Radio for the last few weeks, a lot of programs similar to this. And I want to thank everyone for listening, and it’s really been a great eye-opener to be here with Kira Kay, my guest for the night. And listen next week, same time, same place. Thank you very much, and I’ll just end with this song that we came in with by Jimmy Cliff, which was another place in the world that really was transformed, Jamaica. So thank you for listening, and I’ll hear from you next week. Good night.