New Realities recorded on November 6, 2007
Summary
In this interview, Alan Steinfeld talks with scientist Klaus Heinemann, co-author of ‘The Orb Project.’ Heinemann discusses his research into the ‘orb’ phenomenon seen in digital photography, arguing that they are not mere artifacts like dust or water, but emanations from spirit beings. He also reflects on his shift from a skeptical mainstream scientist to one open to phenomena outside the conventional scientific paradigm.
Transcript
Alan Steinfeld
My next guest is someone who’s actually dealing with the effects of these plasma fields and he’s part of a whole phenomena that’s happening called orbs. O-R-B. Look up that on the Internet. And he is the co-author of a new book along with Micael Ledwith, who was my guest last week, called The Orb Project. And that is published by Beyond Words. And they have a website beyondwords.com is their website. And you can order the book online there. And there’s also going to be a symposium this week in New York, this Saturday. Actually, the website is beyondword.com. And they will have the books at the symposium, which is November 10th at the Synagogue of the Arts, 49 White Street, which is three blocks south of Canal, and that’s starting at 3:30. We’re going to be having a whole day of orbs and orb discussions along with a film that just was released, a film by Hope and Randy Mead, who I’ve also interviewed on this program. If you look at the archives, the New Realities archives, you can get my program with Mihai Ledwith and Hope and Randy Mead. Mihai will also be appearing on WBAI Radio at 10:00 p.m. New York time this Thursday, and he will be at the conference along with this book that’s just being released called The Orb Project. So we’ll go into a whole discussion coming up now with Klaus Heinemann about what orbs are and how everyone can be a part of this phenomena. So let’s see if we can get Klaus on the line, can we?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes, I’m here.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh Klaus, thank you.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes, I’m here.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. Yeah, that was a little introduction to this book, which is really the first major book, I think, on this phenomena called orbs. I mean, most people haven’t even heard of it, or if they see something that appears on their camera that’s unusual, they usually, they discount it as anything, but what’s your take? And I know you go into it in the book, but what’s your take on what this phenomena is? And can you just describe it to people who have never heard anything about it?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. It shows up in your digital pictures and typically it has a circular shape, some light features, I would say with some interior features in them, a circular shape and they are being seen in digital photos all over the world.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, it is. And but most people think it’s water or dust or defect.
Klaus Heinemann
Correct. Many people, not, I wouldn’t say necessarily most people, but many people dismiss them, not really knowing what they are, as reflections from the light coming from the flash at dust particles or any other aerosols that are around near the camera. Now, of course I have examined this particular phenomenon quite a bit and I have come to the conclusion that in most cases, certainly not in all of them, but in many cases, let’s say, these cannot be explained as artifactual phenomena from diffraction phenomena.
Alan Steinfeld
Because when you photograph a dust particle or water vapor, it doesn’t look anything like this.
Klaus Heinemann
Well, it does look similar.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh, it does.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes, it does look similar, but there are substantial differences when you really study those in more depth. There are similarities.
Alan Steinfeld
What are the differences though?
Klaus Heinemann
The differences are that they respond to color enhancement. And most importantly, I would say the differences are that in some cases, you can find these orbs in a fashion that absolutely excludes the explanation that we are just talking about. For example, the explanation only holds when these suspended particles are very close to the camera, within let’s say a couple of inches. So extremely close. As soon as they are further away, you would not get that effect anymore. And we have quite a bit of evidence of orbs that make it extremely clear that they are far away from the camera, several feet away. For example, if you are photographing an orb and if there is an object between the orb and the camera, then it’s very clear that if the orb is behind the object, then it cannot be just within a few inches away. So I have orb pictures that are eclipsed by objects, including by people, so they kind of peek out behind a person and the like. So this is one criteria that determines that these orbs are genuine.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. If they’re behind somebody, then it’s a little, I mean, I haven’t seen that many that are blocked by an object. But of course, the next obvious question is what are they?
Klaus Heinemann
What are they? What are they?
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah. If they’re not anything that we can explain, then they, and they are obviously there, something’s there. What do you think they are? And you can also give us a little bit about your background as a scientist. And how you came, but let’s just answer what do you think they are? And then we’ll go into your background, okay?
Klaus Heinemann
Okay. Now it is my working hypothesis. And I only can phrase that as a hypothesis. That these are not of the physical world. That these are energetic, but they are not following the normal laws of physics and of the normal laws of energy the way we know it. There are, as I say, this is a working hypothesis that I have looked at these in accordance with this hypothesis.
Alan Steinfeld
Would you say that they’re conscious, aware?
Klaus Heinemann
I would say that they are. Now, in my mind they are not directly what people would call spirit beings or spirit entities. But I would think that they are emanations from such spirit entities.
Alan Steinfeld
Now, the other thing is there’s more than one type, there seems to be, you know, half a dozen or more colors, some moving up.
Klaus Heinemann
There are huge, my hypothesis includes that there would be huge varieties of these orbs.
Alan Steinfeld
The other phenomena that I’ve noticed is it’s sort of an initiation process. Before I was aware that they were there, I don’t think I took many, but once I learned about them at the Ramtha school, I sort of opened up to the fact and now they show up almost in every single picture I take.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. When I started seeing them about three years ago, I had never noticed them before, obviously, and then at that point in time they appeared maybe in one out of 50 pictures that I was taking. And as I then began to study them, they appeared to be much more frequently. And within a relatively short time I was at an average of maybe two orbs per picture taken.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. As if they’re responding to your intention and consciousness, right?
Klaus Heinemann
I believe that they do. I believe that that is part of the hypothesis. And there are some of my studies indicate that that must be that way. For example, well, let me, in the book I am describing an experiment where I am using two cameras and one flash illuminating the pictures taken in both cameras. So that they would be absolutely taken at the same time. And out of these experiments I’m concluding that these emanations from spirit beings or these orbs choose to beam into the camera of the person photographing.
Alan Steinfeld
They choose. So with your experiment, did you use two cameras and one flash? Did both cameras get the orb?
Klaus Heinemann
No, not both cameras, but only one camera at any one time would see the orb, not both at the same time.
Alan Steinfeld
Because I think I got an orb at the same time with someone else. It seems to be the same orb with the same signature pattern in two different cameras.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. That can happen too. And I am also describing that, where in two successive images, I am photographing an orb that has changed both in location and in orientation and in size. And so rotated a little bit and very clearly it is the same orb with the same interiority. So that can happen. And that is another one of those proofs that would clearly indicate this cannot happen with diffraction phenomena.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, and that’s what I feel, I photographed the same orb. As if it was pulsating. It looked like it was small in the next picture it was much larger, as if they sort of pulsate in and out of form, shape, size, yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
Right. That is, I think what you have seen is exactly corroborating the hypothesis that I am working with, that they are in fact changing their size and their location extremely quickly.
Alan Steinfeld
Well. Now go ahead, finish that thought.
Klaus Heinemann
I was just going to say that their normal state of beingness, their normal, we call ourselves in the physical world, we say that our rest position is when we are not moving. Right. And I believe that these have a rest position where it is just the opposite, where they are moving extremely fast and where they are expanding and contracting extremely fast. And that is the reason why we don’t normally see them with our bare eyes.
Alan Steinfeld
But we can, or I have, I’ve sensed them, I’ve seen lights blink on and off in the corner of my eye.
Klaus Heinemann
And that’s, some people can see them. Yeah. And you are very fortunate if you can. And again, the way you are describing that, that you’re seeing it in the corner of your eyes, whereby your real attention is not, your real eye’s attention is not directly to them.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I think there’s something also about cones and rods and something Ramtha said years ago is that one of those see other dimensions, I think whatever is on the outside see other dimensions and the cones I think just see this dimension, you know. So there’s something about our visual capability that we haven’t completely explored.
Klaus Heinemann
That is correct.
Alan Steinfeld
But what I’m really interested in is like you, your history as a mainstream scientist and coming to something that most people would say is paranormal. I don’t know, there’s probably no real classification for it, but give us your history and how you got from there to here.
Klaus Heinemann
Well, I certainly, let me say this, had a person approached me maybe six, seven years ago that he had photographed emanations from spirit beings, I would have said you must be nuts. And so I have come a long ways. I mean, I was definitely, I’ve definitely come from the very skeptic side that everything that I could not explain in physical terms, I would simply discard.
Alan Steinfeld
You would discard it. But you were a scientist, right?
Klaus Heinemann
Right. And as a scientist I almost felt the obligation to do that.
Alan Steinfeld
To discard new information?
Klaus Heinemann
Pardon me?
Alan Steinfeld
As a scientist, you felt to discard information that would not fit into your worldview and paradigm, is that what you’re saying?
Klaus Heinemann
That’s how I used to be. That is correct. And that’s how I think many scientists are.
Alan Steinfeld
But that’s the very opposite of how science really should be.
Klaus Heinemann
Science is perceived as being at the forefront of discovery. Yes. But it has the unwritten law that this discovery can only be within the framework of what we can explain. And there are things that simply do not fall into that framework, that fall outside the box. And this is a jump that a scientist has to make in order to proceed. He has to be, and I came to the conclusion that in order to proceed with my own development, in a way, I needed to allow occurrences even if I cannot explain them.
Alan Steinfeld
So you decided not to discount something that fell outside the box. You’re saying.
Klaus Heinemann
I decided not to discount something outright when it fell outside the box. And that opened up a whole new perspective.
Alan Steinfeld
But if something’s outside the box of what can be explained, then it must be obvious that what we think we know is not the whole truth.
Klaus Heinemann
That is absolutely correct.
Alan Steinfeld
And so scientists then say, you know, space and time are like this, and then someone like Einstein comes along and says no, it’s like this, and you know, there’s a bigger picture that’s being painted. And that must be happening all the time in science if it’s truly an act of discovery.
Klaus Heinemann
I think it has happened frequently in science when a new realization came about. Einstein, for example, certainly was not very popular in the beginning. Right. With his new theories, and it took quite a while to accept them. And we know in history that this has been the case over and over again.
Alan Steinfeld
Over and over again. And I mean the guy who discovered circulation was laughed at, you know, that the heart pumps. The guy who found out about continental drift was laughed at, and oh, the first airplane, the Wright brothers were totally discounted. And there were articles coming out saying heavier than air machines were impossible.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. And it is actually my view that people who do not allow to entertain an idea that falls outside the box, really are shorting their own experience. They are cutting themselves off of truly exciting aspects of life about what’s possible. They limit their own possibilities.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean even me with orbs, like okay I started to see them in other people’s pictures and then I started to take them myself and then they started to be… there was one exercise I did at this particular school where I did discover them. And we would project a symbol or imagine a symbol that the orbs would have and then these pictures would be taken and there was an orb that I projected with that symbol. It happened to be an infinity sign, but there was that symbol inside the orb as if it was responding to an intention that I had. And then my own history with orbs and going out and looking for them and actually feeling like there’s almost a relationship I have with these beings, whatever they are. It’s I still find that hard to accept even though a part of me is doing it. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. I think the latest findings are that we are in fact creating our own reality. And what you are describing is just that, that the orbs are in fact responding to what you are creating.
Alan Steinfeld
But you know there’s two sides to the creating the reality thing. It’s like, I am creating my reality but this is something I never intended to create. I mean I was introduced to it and then said okay let’s have some fun. So and then there’s the other part that says no this isn’t possible. This is just… So I mean, are we if we creating our reality then how do we ever get anything new into that reality is my question to you.
Klaus Heinemann
Well, I mean, I think the orbs in a way are showing us that there is a lot more to reality than we think, than we have thought before. I believe if there is a message then it is that message that they are just simply telling us hey there is more.
Alan Steinfeld
There’s more to the reality. So then in a sense we create the reality in an open ended way right?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean we say okay I’m intending this reality but I’m also open to whatever else is beyond what I can conceive in this moment.
Klaus Heinemann
That is that I think is a good way of expressing it. Yes. I really resonate with that.
Alan Steinfeld
So what kind of scientist were you before you got into the paranormal or whatever this is?
Klaus Heinemann
What was I? I am trained as an experimental physicist doing surface physics research. And for many years I have done surface physics research in conjunction with the University of California in Los Angeles and then Stanford University. And usually or mostly on contract to NASA.
Alan Steinfeld
You’re saying surface physics?
Klaus Heinemann
Surface physics yes. That’s the physics of the interaction of gases and environments on solid surfaces.
Alan Steinfeld
On solid surfaces. One thing I always was curious about gases is the inert gases, the noble gases seem to mark a sort of an ending point to our dimension because of their electron configuration. There seems to be something almost mystical about these inert gases. Is that true?
Alan Steinfeld
Well for me at the time the mystical part was that they were particles and that they were inert. So we could use them in essence to clean solid surfaces before the reaction with for example oxygen would take place. So we would bombard the surface with argon for example which is a noble gas. And so it would keep the surface clean. And it would in fact remove everything that’s on it. That is not the particular matter of the surface itself.
Klaus Heinemann
But don’t you think…
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah go ahead.
Klaus Heinemann
No I was just saying so there is not too much relationship to the orb research and that but that’s what I was doing. No but I always thought it was odd that there’s a sort of limit or ending to an electron configuration if that’s what electrons are actually doing and no one really knows because some people say the electrons are really gas clouds. But it seems according to the periodic table that the noble gases mark a sort of division point within our structured universe or three-dimensional realm. That seems to be a sort of period ending point. But there seems more to be going on with them. You know?
Alan Steinfeld
That could very well be. And although I do not think that this is I mean at least it would not be clear to me that this has any particular relation to the explanation of the orb phenomenon.
Klaus Heinemann
No nothing to the explanation of the orb phenomenon. But then how did you go from that kind of practical physics, what was the first thing that opened you up to something new in your reality?
Alan Steinfeld
I think I’d have to say that I have always been interested in spiritual phenomena for a good part of my life. And when I ran across these orb pictures that did start my interest.
Klaus Heinemann
But how did you connect this spiritual phenomenon to the hardcore physics that doesn’t include anything about spirit? How is that bridge for you?
Klaus Heinemann
You mean even before the orbs?
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah I mean you were involved with or even before the orbs you were interested in spiritual phenomena but yet you were very trained in classical physics. Was there a point where the two fit or were they just totally disconnected?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. I would have to admit that I had always a what Professor Tiller calls a boggle factor that was greater than zero. And so I was always somewhat open to the fact that there is a spiritual reality that is an adjunct to our physical reality that we can see and that we can experiment with. And this spiritual reality would just simply be one where we would not be subject to the limitations of space and time as we are in the physical. I think this construct has always intrigued me. And I do believe that there is now mounting evidence that there is something to this construct.
Alan Steinfeld
Well if there is a spiritual reality, and I think there is and maybe the orbs are part of it, there must be some laws, maybe not the laws of physics or maybe it’s a higher physics, but it seems that there must be laws that govern that reality as well. Don’t you think?
Klaus Heinemann
I would think so yes. That is the case. And if you… Well this again goes quite a way out of the area of orbs.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s okay we can talk about anything we don’t have to just talk about orbs because I’m interested in all the stuff that you’re…
Klaus Heinemann
Yes it’s been one of my fascinations has been an extrapolation of the dualism that we know exists in normal physics. The wave particle dualism.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
And I have hypothesized that there is a whole reality that is in a way a dualism counterpart to the physical reality that we are all living in.
Alan Steinfeld
Explain a little bit more about that.
Klaus Heinemann
And if you run this thought experiment all the way through, what you are actually doing is you are adding what amounts to an additional dimension to the four-dimensional space-time that we normally have. And that would be all that would be needed to add this additional dimension.
Alan Steinfeld
So in this dimension some things are both wave and particle at the same time?
Klaus Heinemann
In that dimension what would be the entity energy itself would already be in that dimension. And it would have a counterpart that could be construed as thought, consciousness. And so it gets into this whole aspect what is consciousness. And does it decay or does it not decay. And where is it does it stay connected to a person? Is there something that is super ordinated as consciousness? All of these things are very interesting to look at in this metaphor.
Alan Steinfeld
Well could actually we be photographing that dimension with these orbs? Could these orbs be aspects of that consciousness?
Klaus Heinemann
It’s conceivable that the orbs and that would be my way of looking at them at this point in time, that the orbs are in fact representatives from that reality.
Alan Steinfeld
Because they do seem to exist within a dimension of themselves.
Klaus Heinemann
They appear to exist in a dimension that is outside of ours yet they appear to have an energetic component to them. And that is the component with which they make themselves known in our cameras.
Alan Steinfeld
And they seem to have an aspect of consciousness as well.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
And some people say they’re actually the projections of their own consciousness somehow.
Klaus Heinemann
There is one of the pictures that I’m showing in the book in the Orb Project book is a picture where a person projected his own thought consciousness outside of his head. And first said I’m going to do this and then said now I have done this take a picture. And that picture is shown in the book. And it shows something that looks very much like an orb but very different from the normal orbs. Very bright right next to his head.
Alan Steinfeld
Uh-huh. That’s so there is that. So maybe this the way out theory that you have is actually the reason you know this book came to you to write this and to tune into this. Maybe you’re actually describing an interactive reality that seems to be connected to us all the time.
Klaus Heinemann
I believe that it is connected to us all the time. I believe that these orbs are in fact all around us all the time. That this reality that we are talking about is not away from us but it is with us. It is totally there is no space and time separation between us and that reality.
Alan Steinfeld
Right I get the sense of that too. That they’re actually probably all around us now if I was to photograph just my room I’m sitting in they’d be perhaps listening to this conversation.
Klaus Heinemann
I’m sure they are.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean if they’re listening then they’re conscious and they’re… But I think they are all around us all the time and you know I think there’s a related ghost phenomenon that is connected to this because I did photograph a cemetery there was stuff around there that was a little odd and…
Klaus Heinemann
Now if you look at this phenomenon all the way through you would have to say that it is our physical reality that has enormous limitations. And that other reality has many many fewer limitations and therefore probably has many many more variations of species and all of that within that reality.
Alan Steinfeld
Well I don’t know I think we have some unlimited possibilities here that they might not have too. That’s possible.
Klaus Heinemann
That’s possible. Especially in our production quote unquote of thought and consciousness. With which we in fact then penetrate into that other reality.
Alan Steinfeld
But I just want to say I’m talking to Klaus Heinemann who’s the co-author of The Orb Project which is published by Beyond Words Publishing an Atria division of Simon and Schuster. You can go to theorbproject.com to look at the website or beyondword.com. And look for the book. This event on Saturday I’m hosting Klaus won’t be there but his co-author Miceal Ledwith will be there and it’s going to be starting at 3:30 at the Synagogue of the Arts which is 49 White Street south of Canal in New York City. If you have any questions about that you can email me at newrealities@earthlink.net. But let’s talk a little bit more and then we’ll wrap it up. The idea that these things can be photographed means that they have substance right? They’re etheric but describe what you think is happening as because they’re usually taken with a flash when the flash hits whatever these things are it’s reflected back in. Talk about that.
Klaus Heinemann
I would at this point hypothesize that they take the energy from the flash and literally radiate it back in a very directed fashion almost like a coherent laser beam to the camera to be recorded in a picture.
Alan Steinfeld
They do that with conscious intention huh?
Klaus Heinemann
They do that with conscious intention.
Alan Steinfeld
Now why do you think that?
Klaus Heinemann
They do not radiate and the experiments have actually shown that they do not radiate isotropically meaning in all directions. They would have far too little energy to do that. They select a very directed direction.
Alan Steinfeld
Is that why they appear flat when in essence they must be actually balls instead of disks?
Klaus Heinemann
I would think that they are balls.
Alan Steinfeld
You do think they’re balls?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes I do. I think they are plasma like balls. But they are not physical plasmas. They are energy plasmas of some sort.
Alan Steinfeld
Now why do they appear flat then?
Klaus Heinemann
I’m sorry?
Alan Steinfeld
Why do most of them appear flat? Is that just the perspective of the photograph?
Klaus Heinemann
I think that’s a perspective. I mean if you photograph a regular football it doesn’t appear three-dimensional either.
Alan Steinfeld
Well that’s true. The other unusual phenomenon is in rain they seem to be these orbs and I photographed them a lot going upwards. You know what I’m talking about?
Klaus Heinemann
Yeah yes.
Alan Steinfeld
How do you explain that?
Klaus Heinemann
I have not seen you know the varieties may be unlimited but I personally have not seen any particular preferred direction in which the orbs go. If they move with fast speed.
Alan Steinfeld
You’ve seen them move though, right? You’ve seen the pictures where one may be kind of as if it’s moving as a like a, you know, as a photography that.
Klaus Heinemann
Almost like a comet.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, you’ve seen that, right?
Klaus Heinemann
Yeah, I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that and in fact, I have seen movies taken from where they’re moving around.
Alan Steinfeld
You’ve seen movies of Orbs?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh wow.
Klaus Heinemann
And there’s a very exciting film that was taken by some British people a couple of years ago, I believe in Aruja in Brazil at the home of Joao, the medium Joao.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Klaus Heinemann
Whom some people know as, in the common language, John of God.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh right.
Klaus Heinemann
And they have taken a film section 5 minutes long I believe, where several people saw them and they moved all around and beautiful pictures. So, that may be one kind or one sort of orbs. Not representing all the orbs that there are but just one kind.
Alan Steinfeld
I see. Well I like that you’re still a scientist about it and you know you have a hypothesis and you’re not coming out and you’re not saying this is what it is.
Klaus Heinemann
I’m certainly not shattered if something else comes out.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. I mean is there more that, I mean it seems like this is just the beginning of the phenomena but is there more to be found out about this? I mean, what experiments can people do or where is the research going I guess is the question I’m asking in this area.
Klaus Heinemann
Where is the research going? That is a good question. I think we have literally just scratched the surface of it.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
And as more people see them and more consciousness is implanted in people about them, I think that will determine the directions. I would hope that at some point in time maybe it could even be tied with some, let me not speculate at this point.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh, well you can spread. I mean it’s okay, no one’s gonna hold you to it. I love speculation because it creates the possibilities and maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not.
Klaus Heinemann
I think the research will have to go in the direction of doing more with the consciousness part.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
Really talking to them quote unquote.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
Having an exchange of thoughts. I mean, it is already so that from the evidence that we have, that you literally talk to them and ask them show up in my picture and they do.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah. Yeah, no I think that’s… And Mihai seems to be getting some amazing stuff with the fields and the torsion fields that are happening with that team?
Klaus Heinemann
Yes, yes. And he is, yeah, he has been getting amazing results and many, many pictures. And probably since he is taking most of his pictures in the outdoors and in the dark he probably gets mostly different species of them.
Alan Steinfeld
What do you mean mostly different than other people are getting?
Klaus Heinemann
It all depends. I have mostly seen orbs or photographed or seen orbs in my pictures who were at certain occasions around people. Both indoors and outdoors but mostly connected with joyous occasions and festive occasions, in spiritual occasions and Mihai mostly, but not all, mostly has in his collection, pictures that were taken outside and not necessarily connected with many people around.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, that’s true and that’s all in the Orb Project book or some of those are in…
Klaus Heinemann
That’s all in the Orb Project book. All I’m saying is that I believe that the variety of orbs is huge.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
And so as more and more people get experience with photographing them, they get them in different situations.
Alan Steinfeld
And they actually, I’ve seen them become plasma and miss, and that’s another phenomena as well.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes, that maybe they change their size and their location so rapidly that they lose totally their shape in the image and then they appear like these nebulous flashes.
Alan Steinfeld
Well I think they could actually have a sort of group mind where they all dissolve together as if, you know, drops in an ocean form a pool of water, you know?
Klaus Heinemann
I have taken one, and this is not described in the book yet.
Alan Steinfeld
Yes.
Klaus Heinemann
I have made a series of experiments where I used three cameras, three different cameras to establish whether or not there’s any camera effect and so on. Took hundreds of pictures with all three of them at the same time and got an interesting result. And the result is that in each camera in 33% of the cases, of the pictures there was an orb.
Alan Steinfeld
In each camera was it the same orb?
Klaus Heinemann
Each camera registered not the same orb but registered an orb in one third of the occasions.
Alan Steinfeld
So what does that prove to you?
Klaus Heinemann
In total there was one orb in each picture. But they evenly distributed themselves over the three cameras.
Alan Steinfeld
So what conclusion do you draw from that?
Klaus Heinemann
The conclusion of that is that if you really think about it that is almost an enormous act of telling us something.
Alan Steinfeld
An enormous act of what?
Klaus Heinemann
An enormous in a way, act of telling us something. That they did not appear in one camera more than in another and chose to be just so distributed that 3 times 33% is 100%. So in each act of exposures of three cameras, there was one orb. So it almost sounds like there was a group mind that decided let’s show them what we can do.
Alan Steinfeld
So if they’re saying we’re not going to appear to any one camera more than any other, they’re talking or maybe you’re a conduit to the general public saying that you know everyone has a chance to get it. It’s not that they’re going to appear to some people more than others.
Klaus Heinemann
Right, right. And just simply saying hey, we’re going to show you that there is a lot that we can project. That you know, we give you a little puzzle to solve, a little something to think about.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Klaus Heinemann
These percentages that came out were interesting.
Alan Steinfeld
That’s great, well you are probably the leading edge person, scientist that is researching this phenomena, I mean…
Klaus Heinemann
Well, but I hope there will be more.
Alan Steinfeld
Well there will but they need people like you who are creative thinkers, who can’t think outside the box in order to actually devise experiments that will give us more about them, you know.
Klaus Heinemann
Right, right.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean, they say you only get the answer to the greatest question you can ask, I mean you only get the answer from the level of question you’re asking. You’re asking bigger questions you’re getting more information then.
Klaus Heinemann
That is correct. And I would hope that we all, as time progresses more and more people go in that direction and more and more people will be open and this thing will unfold.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah, I’d love to do a show with you sometime about perception and creativity. We didn’t really get into that because I know you’ve been studying that as well and something I’ve been looking into.
Klaus Heinemann
That is an interesting topic indeed and yes, there is a lot to be said about that.
Alan Steinfeld
Well I’m actually writing about that, the artist’s role in creating new perceptions and I think the scientist as well, the true scientist that is willing to think outside the box gives us a little bigger piece of what reality is by articulating a perception that people may discount or not aware of. So it’s those anomalies, the things that aren’t quite proven true that when given expression to then become incorporated into a greater vision of what’s possible and what’s here.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. And I think that’s exactly what the orbs are doing, they are giving us a picture of a greater reality that we are actually living in.
Klaus Heinemann
Right. Now, in my book section I am mentioning the apparitions of Medjugorje in Yugoslavia in the mid 80s. And this is an interesting phenomenon and people might want to read that and kind of draw their own conclusions.
Alan Steinfeld
Well what’s the connection between the apparitions of Mary?
Klaus Heinemann
The connection is that before the discovery of the orbs, and maybe you know if we do want to connect crop circles with this, then before the discovery of crop circles as a big phenomenon and orbs, there was really only the spirit beings if they were there and I believe they were, only had the opportunity or the power to be seen by a few people who were really visionaries. And these visionaries in Medjugorje in Yugoslavia were children between ages 10 and 20.
Alan Steinfeld
Right.
Klaus Heinemann
And they appeared to these children and there is no doubt there were medical, physical experiments done to document that these children did not have hallucinations or anything like that. They actually saw apparitions. But the point is, it was only about 40 children and everybody else did not see it. And now we have a method whereby they, with a capital T, can make themselves visible in digital cameras all over the world.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, and that is a great observation. Glad you brought that up because what it seems to be saying is that somehow we are evolving our perceptions and our consciousness and there’s a sort of my hypothesis is that there’s a thinning of the doorways, a bleed-through between the dimensions that seems to be making itself manifest now.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
And that’s really exciting. I knew there was an apparition of Mary in the Bronx in about 1945 and I went up there and interviewed Joe Vitello who’s about now 60 something and he has a shrine to Mary. But I talked to him about his apparitions and it was absolutely true he saw something.
Klaus Heinemann
Right. But it’s very hard especially for the skeptic to do anything with that because they just simply say they are hallucinating. And there’s no proof.
Alan Steinfeld
It’s great to say that people are hallucinating but the whole question is like UFOs, I mean I’ve seen UFOs, I was not hallucinating. There are things out there.
Klaus Heinemann
Oh I know that, I know that. Right, you see that but when you are talking about it, you will often find simply disbelief among some of the listeners. Because they cannot see it.
Alan Steinfeld
They can’t see it and it’s like you know John Mack who was very much into this phenomena and UFO abductions and he was a Harvard psychiatrist, told the story of how either him or someone said even if it’s true I don’t believe it, you know?
Klaus Heinemann
Yeah, right. Right. But now you can say just get yourself a camera and photograph it and make up your mind.
Alan Steinfeld
Make up your mind and your own story about what they are. But they exist. I mean I do urge everyone out who’s listening to take a digital camera now that you’ve been initiated with this conversation go out there and just… and I find if I take pictures of the sky they’ll show up.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes, they definitely will, that is the easiest way because the background is dark and so any contrast whatsoever will much easier with much less energy be imprinted on your camera.
Alan Steinfeld
Right, sky at night just point your digital camera up toward the sky and see what you come up with and I guarantee one out of 10 pictures will have something that can’t be explained.
Klaus Heinemann
Right.
Alan Steinfeld
This is a very exciting work you’re doing Klaus. Thank you.
Klaus Heinemann
And I appreciate your letting me, asking me these questions.
Alan Steinfeld
Well this is what I’ve been doing. I mean the show is called New Realities because I think this is the most exciting things that are happening on the planet is investigating new perceptions and new phenomena in order to expand our minds.
Klaus Heinemann
Right. The interesting thing is, although your show has a very good title, the reality that we’re looking at is in fact not new. It’s just our perception of it.
Alan Steinfeld
You don’t think that there could be new, that the fact that there’s this bleed-through is something that we as an evolutionary race could be moving towards something new? Do you…
Klaus Heinemann
Oh it’s new, there’s no doubt about it but in that reality that we are talking about I think they have always existed because there is no time. This concept new and old is a third dimensional concept, is a concept that belongs to our physical, emotional, mental reality. But not to the spiritual part. That extension doesn’t have time and space limitations.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean, as I’m talking to you I’m actually getting more and more excited about what orbs are because it’s like you’re pointing out to me that we are being integrated into a dimensional phenomena and seeing for ourselves really a new heaven and a new earth here.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
It’s miraculous that it took a simple digital camera to expose a hidden reality like you said that was there all along.
Klaus Heinemann
Yeah, yeah.
Alan Steinfeld
Isn’t it truly miraculous in a sense?
Klaus Heinemann
It is. It is miraculous. And it is also food for thought.
Alan Steinfeld
What’s that?
Klaus Heinemann
It is also food for thought. Which is a metaphorical way of saying it is something that should make us think, that should make us reflect on many things. And I think it should make us reflect on the situation that we as a species are in at this point in time.
Alan Steinfeld
Well go a little bit deeper into that. Like environmental, what do you mean exactly?
Klaus Heinemann
Well yeah I mean we are still in this ancient mode where we are resolving conflicts by killing each other. Where we are talking about spiritual evolution but really not applying it. That we are far away from where we should be. And if there is a message in all of this, and of course this message may be personal for every individual, but for me it is to take another look at this whole situation. How are we relating to each other.Really treating our neighbors, how are we freely treating our fellow human beings? And what is it that we need to learn if we as a species are to survive?
Alan Steinfeld
But yeah, I totally agree. And it also brings up maybe a chance to redefine ourselves of who we are as humans and and and open up a possibility of what consciousness is.
Klaus Heinemann
What consciousness is and what we have to do with consciousness. Because we can be you know, we we can be vehicles to produce consciousness.
Alan Steinfeld
Vehicles to produce consciousness.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
Explain that.
Klaus Heinemann
That’s explain that. It seems to me that it really boils down to what is it that we’re all about as human beings, as a species. It, in my mind, is that we are to produce consciousness, to become conscious to add to this field, to this morphic field of consciousness that is that is increasing with every person, with every event of consciousness. Because consciousness is something that does not decay like every physical energy or any physical matter does. It it decays. Consciousness does not it not decay. So in essence, with with us humans, this this little spec in the universe, we have the capability of adding to the consciousness that is there. Ever so little. But maybe that is part of a deep plan.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, it as you’re saying that, I get the sense that we as humans are vehicles of consciousness. We we are here as emanations of consciousness and our whole purpose for existence. If consciousness never decays is to start to direct that consciousness towards higher more collective, more loving and compassionate end. Not to isolate what what is my consciousness from your, but to join together. And it’s only in that that it seems like that evolution is possible.
Klaus Heinemann
I think so. In fact, consciousness is not something that remains tied to the person that produced it. Uh-huh. I think I think is the moment it it is it is made, if you can make consciousness or produce it. That moment, it gets released and it’s it’s separated from the person from whom it came. So this is not something that that is just like that. You can have a copyright on.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, couldn’t orbs be an aspect of ourselves that are now that we’re now ready to join up with in our next phase of this evolution of consciousness? So here we are as humanity evolving, and here’s this other part, as if, you know, two parts of a, let’s say, a machine. And now that we’re both ready, where the thing is being put together and something synergetically will result from that. That just came.
Klaus Heinemann
That’s an interesting thought, and that’s a thought that I resonate with. But I think we know far too little to really we we want to can talk about it when. I think this is this is a something that res that I resonate with. Yes.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean, it just came to me. It’s like, oh, if we’re really connected to each other and we must be connected to everything that is conscious, then we’re most likely connected to that. This phenomenon that are another aspect of our evolution or another aspect of ourselves.
Klaus Heinemann
Right. It gives us a a larger picture of the oneness that we are connected with.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah. That is the most exciting thing about this orphenomena. It gives us a bigger picture of who we are as consciousness and of what the world is about and and truly an understanding of what dimensional reality is about.
Klaus Heinemann
Yes. We have a picture of other dimensions. That I think is is a is a phenomenal miraculous. Yeah. I think as a metaphor, when we for the first time, some forty years ago saw a picture of our planet Earth from outer space.
Alan Steinfeld
Yeah.
Klaus Heinemann
That was an event of enlightenment. Yeah. Because all of a sudden, we saw that everything that that connects us, that we do was all confined to that tiny little thing there inside photograph. From from the moon went down to. Yeah. Rusty Schweiker had to this this realization. And I think the orb phenomenon for the photographs of orbs could be could have a similar impact on people.
Alan Steinfeld
To show how limited what we thought was reality, right?
Klaus Heinemann
Right. Right. Indicating to us there is a lot more. Just just just take take us seriously, take understand that there is more to reality than you’ve always believed.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, I’m thinking that I think the project, the first book that’s made major book at out on subject is gonna start a phenomena, a sad where where and that’s what I’m hoping to start everyone going out to and starting to compare their orb shots. Right. And I think you know, as it becomes more mainstream people open up. Right. To, well, what else is possible? Right. Who are we really? Who are we really?
Klaus Heinemann
What are we really what are we really supposed to do and what are we doing? And why aren’t we changing?
Alan Steinfeld
So you see it as a vehicle for change?
Klaus Heinemann
I see it as a vehicle to to become to reflect on who we are and what we are doing and where we are going. And indication that we do need to seriously consider and redirect our where we’re going.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, thank you Klaus for this interview.
Klaus Heinemann
Thank you for for your questions.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, let’s talk again. I mean, I do this show every week. And I just wanted to really get the all the orb thing handled because this big conference is coming. And I really want people to really come down to this conference in New York and really bring your camera bring you digital camera. They’ll be they’ll be people there conducting an orb front. Everyone can be a participant, although I have found that the more expensive cameras have some kind of filter that seem to block out. Your.
Klaus Heinemann
That yeah. Don’t don’t I have I have used all levels of cameras. I have actually not seen uh differences.
Alan Steinfeld
You haven’t?
Klaus Heinemann
Okay. That’s good.
Alan Steinfeld
Yes.
Klaus Heinemann
So people should not worry about the type of camera just just go with. I think if the orbs want to be shown in people’s cameras and people’s image, they will see them.
Alan Steinfeld
Great. Okay, I’m talking with Klaus Heinemann, who is the co-author of the Orb project published by Beyond Words and Atria Books. The division of Simon and Schuster. You can look at the out project.com is co-authors me whole left with me hole will be in New York on November tense this Saturday at Forty Nine White Street in New York City, along with a host of other people talking about odds and whole understanding dimensions, extra dimension. Ality. It’s gonna be a really interesting way. You have any questions? You can even call. The number 2124736388 or email me at new reality at. I’m telling Steinfeld and you’ve been listening. New reality to Klaus. Final words there?
Klaus Heinemann
Well, just thank you. And the realization is very important to me that this is a hopeful event, a very helpful event. Yes. That this seeing seeing up, seeing a glimpse of of the fact that there isn’t a reality. I think it’s fair.
Alan Steinfeld
Thank you, that’s great.
Klaus Heinemann
Thank you.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, I’m going to go out with song called Master.
Klaus Heinemann
Okay, bye bye.