New Realities recorded on March 3, 2009
Summary
In this episode of New Realities, Alan Steinfeld interviews Shawn and Clay Pickering about their insights into the UFO disclosure movement. The brothers discuss their interactions with a government informant who claims that a specific extraterrestrial race, described as silicon-based telepathic “conformers,” plans to make unambiguous global contact by 2017. They detail the complex, compartmentalized structure of the government and military apparatus hiding this information, involving multinational corporations and a “satellite government.” The conversation also covers the timeline of crash retrievals, the potential societal and economic impacts of public disclosure, and which US Presidents have been briefed on the extraterrestrial presence.
Transcript
Alan Steinfeld
Welcome to New Realities. This is Alan Steinfeld, and if you’ve been listening to this show, you know I’ve been doing an ongoing series on UFOs and the possibility of government disclosure of their knowledge. And tonight, I have two people who really devoted a lot of time to this subject. They’re really on top of the issue. They’re Shawn and Clay Pickering, and we’re just going to get into it. Okay, guys?
Clay Pickering
Hey, Alan, this is Clay, and thank you for having us on.
Shawn Pickering
Hello, Alan, this is Shawn.
Alan Steinfeld
Shawn, Clay is the taller one. Otherwise, I can’t tell you guys apart because you’re both on top of it. But just to tell you where I, I just ran into Budd Hopkins the other day and we had a little discussion. You know, he’s pretty much the grandfather of the abduction, the whole investigation into ET abductions and UFOology. He took the next step. He said for a long time, no one expected there were even beings in these crafts. And then we find out not only they manned, but they’re taking some part of the population of the planet to do experiments on. Anyway, I think that’s all almost proven and given. But he also said he can’t imagine the government coming forward and saying, you know what, this has been happening, and we can’t do a thing about it. And not only that, they have this advanced technology and we’re completely at the mercy of who these beings are. And he didn’t think the government would ever come out and actually say, guess what, they’re here. Now, where are you guys coming from? Because I know you’ve been connected with an informant from the government who’s sort of leaking stuff to you. Give me a little rundown for people listening. What’s happening in the disclosure world?
Shawn Pickering
Well, Clay and I had the pleasure and privilege to meet an individual who is connected to a certain branch of the armed forces. And through a program, he has had the extraordinary opportunity to interface with a particular ET race. In fact, more than one. Through this whole…
Alan Steinfeld
Wait, just back up. So we get it clear. Through the government. So the government themselves have been interacting with an ET race and he is sort of an ambassador from the government to this ET race?
Shawn Pickering
Well, again, I should say, to introduce a concept here. When you say government, this has been a big problem in understanding the phenomenon. Clay, do you want to add exactly the difference between the government…
Clay Pickering
It’s like I think Ralph Schoenman had a pretty good definition on it. It’s the unelected second, third tier that revolves between multinational corporations and government.
Shawn Pickering
So what happened is that you had events that had taken place in the 30s and the 40s where you had crashed discs. And you had an event in 1947 called Roswell. The crash was leaked out to the public through the 509th Bomb Group in Roswell, New Mexico. And from there, a tight lid was put on it. The National Security Act was passed in September of 1947. And the net effect of that was that it basically created a blanket of national security on all special programs. Compartmented.
Clay Pickering
Compartmented in the intelligence community and government. So you have the National Security Council, the CIA, Department of Defense, the Atomic Energy Commission. And the separation from the Air Force from the Army. Now it’s critical to understand is that the Air Force was in its infancy, Alan. And the issue here, and I was making this point the other day, is that when you have an upstart organization, you can control who’s put in positions right from bottom up, top down. Either way. So when you have Navy and Army and even the Marines, you have an entrenched bureaucracy that understands government. So you can control. And I want to be very careful to our Air Force colleagues out here, but it’s my interpretation that you have a better grasp of controlling a particular department if you start its beginnings and the Air Force was at its beginning.
Alan Steinfeld
So that, whatever you want to call it, the Air Force or Secret Air Force is connected to this same organization you just sort of identified as the multinational arm of a secret organization, right?
Clay Pickering
Keep this in mind, Alan. We have two forms of government. We have a constitutional government. The color of law on paper which people believe in and abide by or we try to abide by. And then we have the corporate government. And then we call it Admiralty or Maritime Law. Not to get too far, but within that, we have a satellite government that has gained roots in this country through the National Security Act that’s completely unaccountable. So when we deal with the military, the intelligence, or the congressional, we’re dealing with elements that will cross over into that satellite government.
Shawn Pickering
Let me offer a bit of a timeline here. So we moved in from Roswell, there was a number of crashes in the early 50s. And an ad hoc group was formed dealing with the problem of UFOs. It became an institutionalized group known as MJ-12. But even beyond that, once the hardware was gained and they started to try and back-engineer some of this stuff, corporations were needed, multinational corporations were needed to be brought in the fold. Late 50s everything essentially went black. It became corporate and everything was then segregated and meted out to what would be programs. By 57.
Alan Steinfeld
Now do we know the names of these corporations?
Clay Pickering
Go pick up an almanac and look at the top 100.
Alan Steinfeld
Oh, those top 100 multinational corporations are the ones that are connected to this?
Clay Pickering
Sure. We’re talking about the Boeings, the Lockheeds, the Northrop Grummans, the Raytheons, DynCorp.
Shawn Pickering
But it doesn’t mean that the corporation itself, if you were to ask a stockholder or the corporation, do they know about a certain program, they wouldn’t know. Because at a certain point, it becomes compartmentalized and really only the project manager connected to the program under a specific operation would have a good idea what’s happening in that program. And anyone connected to the understanding of the program would have a need to know.
Clay Pickering
Corporations work the same way, Alan.
Alan Steinfeld
So you’re saying, yes, the corporations work the same way as that secret arm of the government so they parallel each other. Most of the corporation doesn’t know, like most of the government doesn’t know.
Shawn Pickering
When the government comes out and says, we don’t know anything about UFOs, they’re essentially telling you the truth.
Clay Pickering
Keep this in mind, just to use an example of constitutional government versus corporate government, let’s roughly define the two. Is that in 34, the Smedley Butler affair, when Smedley Butler warned FDR of an impending coup by certain corporations that were against the FDR New Deal program. You’re talking about the heavyweights within the corporate structure. And what happened at that time was that FDR never pursued it because how do you pursue the very money that put you in power.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. Okay. I think we could do a whole show on just the corporate…
Shawn Pickering
The point is that the notion of corporate control, that is the overriding tentacle of control into why the government doesn’t look into it.
Clay Pickering
Well, we usually call it the powers that be. PTB. At Open Minds forum we call it the powers that be. We’re dealing with that structure.
Alan Steinfeld
So they don’t want UFO disclosure to come out. It has nothing to do with protecting citizens or anything like that?
Shawn Pickering
If you were to basically outline the characteristic of the motives of the corporate state, you’re absolutely correct. If we had to make a generalization, yes. They do not want the information to come out.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. But you’ve now met someone who is either defecting or given the go-ahead, and you’re not sure, I think, what it is, but he’s saying this is time for a whole new ballgame, where we’re ready to come forward with this information.
Clay Pickering
Alan, this is Clay. Yes. Keep this in mind. What our source is divulging is not classified information. That would be a violation of the National Security Act and he would be in deep trouble. What he has been allowed to convey to us by his superiors, specifically admirals and probably the Interservice Working Group, that would mean all branches. But keep this in mind, Navy is in charge of policy with extraterrestrial related matters, but he has given permission to release sensitive information that would help push or crack the lid of secrecy for disclosure. And that is what we’re seeing now.
Alan Steinfeld
I just want to know, he’s been given this right now. The admirals and generals have said go ahead. Are they getting pressure from the ET races themselves?
Clay Pickering
The question is why are they doing it? Because they’re not going to release the information and they’re going to keep it. Why? Very simple. According to our source and he has never wavered on this. Every time we’ve asked him. When we’ve misspoke and when we said if it happens, he says, no, when it happens, and that’s contact, contact will happen.
Shawn Pickering
Public contact.
Alan Steinfeld
I mean there’s already contact obviously.
Shawn Pickering
We mean unambiguous contact where you have ships over various cities around the world will be sitting there for a period of time and there’ll be absolutely no doubt, there’ll be a litany of tests done. Is this a hologram? Is this fake? Is this a manipulation?
Clay Pickering
In other words, we’ve got to go through Schopenhauer’s elements, his statement of surprise, apathy, anger. Oh, I knew I could have had a V8.
Shawn Pickering
So that’s what we mean by unambiguous contact.
Alan Steinfeld
But what are we getting years? Is he giving you a certain date?
Shawn Pickering
Yes. 2017.
Clay Pickering
And I’ve maintained that, and believe me when I say this, Alan, and to the listeners out there, Shawn and I, we despise predictions. I don’t want to get into predictions because they always go south in the end. But when someone who wears the uniform, when we’ve had two years experience and in a relationship on many different fronts. We’ve seen him in uniform. He’s been consistent. He’s been consistent as George Knapp would say with Lazar, he has told the same story the same time all the time, but also has remembered details as they come up and reminded us of details when we left them out where we may have only made reference to it at one time, and then months later he says, hey, no, no, this is what happened. And we go back and find out that he was right on the detail.
Alan Steinfeld
So he’s coming to you because he knows you’re the next tier of public disclosure. Why is he coming to you with this stuff?
Shawn Pickering
That is probably one of the best questions one could ask on this issue. And one thing has to be stated. That at this particular point in time, the apparatus dealing with this really doesn’t know how to handle it.
Alan Steinfeld
What do you mean by the apparatus? Who’s the apparatus?
Shawn Pickering
We’re talking about the powers that be along with certain elements in the military, state department, people in government. Whether that satellite or whether it’s the constitutional government who’ve been let in to a degree about this particular program of our guy in extraterrestrial contact. So let’s take one step back. If our guy is connected to a program. And in that program he is connected to a particular ET race. And this particular ET race states that they are going to make unambiguous contact in 2017. Now put on their platter, for the first time, our guy’s platter, the people he’s connected to, this presents a whole host of problems. It’s never been dealt with before.
Alan Steinfeld
But wait, back up for one second. Because it’s this particular ET race, but it seems like there are a few other ET races that have been here and doing the abductions, and these are not the guys this guy is talking about, right?
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, excuse me, guys. So the question I was asking is, you were saying this is apples and oranges, you’re saying this ET race that your informant has been talking with is saying they’re gonna have disclosure in 2017. And I ask what about all these other ET races that are supposed to be here, essentially doing the abductions, and you said the word disclosure.
Clay Pickering
ET is not going to have disclosure. Let’s back up. This is very important. Disclosure is a human process. Not an ET. It’s up to us to say hey, they’re here. Period. Contact on the other hand is an ET program. It’s an initiative.
Shawn Pickering
Disclosure is a human process. We’re disclosing something that human beings have covered up for at least, as we know, 70 years. And we’re disclosing to the public the reality of the situation. This has to happen, according to our source, before 2017 because there’s no choice, there’s going to be contact.
Alan Steinfeld
What do you mean by there’s no choice?
Shawn Pickering
If you have unambiguous contact in 2017, and the PTBs are not given an option to deal with this, then in order for commerce, when that day happens, in order for it to be a smooth transition where people don’t freak out, there has to be a disclosure process that takes place now to prepare the public for this unambiguous contact event on 2017.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. I get that. I was just making a little distinction between the greys who seem to be here and the race of ETs your guy is talking to. Can you kind of pull all these ET races into a picture?
Shawn Pickering
We can define exactly what our guy has, when he put his anthropology hat on or his scientific hat on and tried to glean exactly motive when he interacted with these things. This is what he came up with. The particular ET race that he was connected to is a silicon-based lifeform. And there are other ET races connected to this ET race. One of which was the Reptilians and Tall Whites. Tall Whites are kind of these really tall…
Clay Pickering
Charles Hall talks about them in his Millennium.
Shawn Pickering
Right. He observed that these particular ET races deferred to the silicon-based lifeform. Now, the silicon-based lifeforms we refer to as conformers. The reason we call them conformers is that if you were to actually hear one of these things talk…
Clay Pickering
Talk for lack of better words.
Shawn Pickering
You couldn’t understand it. A human pallet could not produce the sound. So the reason that they call them conformers is these things are able to change size and shape, still maintaining their central characteristics, what they’re made of, but they can be taller, shorter, they can create appendages out of aspects of their body to grab things. So they can kind of conform to the will of what task needs to be done. So that’s why we kind of use the word conformer and it’s a poor choice, but it’s the best we got.
Clay Pickering
It’s important to clarify something is that also conform, there’s a double meaning that the other races tend to defer for lack of better words to this particular race at some level we don’t know.
Alan Steinfeld
Now aren’t they all telepathic though? Besides they don’t really talk to you…
Clay Pickering
We don’t know that. There is a degree of telepathy involved in the conformers. The reptilians, according to our guy, said there was no telepathy between this particular species of reptilian and our guy.
Alan Steinfeld
Well you don’t believe any of the other things that are coming out from Area 51, Dan Burisch. You believe that guy who says he had this telepathic sort of relationship with this ET? What do you think about that?
Shawn Pickering
Well, you’re talking about what he deemed as a J-Rod, which is a form of gray. First of all, through our guy’s interaction with various ET races. The tall whites tend to be telepathic. Yes. The reptilians, no. Just a species of reptilian. This is what we have. I want to clarify because what happens is we get all these accounts of all these species of reptilians being able to shape shift, being able to induce telepathy. I don’t know. We can only speak about this one particular species. And according to our guy the telepathy is not in place at least with this one species.
Alan Steinfeld
Well it would seem that it would be if they were a superior race.
Shawn Pickering
Just because something is more advanced doesn’t mean they possess the same attributes that we do. capabilities that other ET races possess. So maybe they do, maybe they don’t. Maybe our guy didn’t get enough information at the time. We don’t know. But he only had a period of time from which to glean exactly what these things are and what the relationships are and that kind of thing. Now whether or not he read briefing papers ahead of time, we don’t know. That was never revealed to us.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, so let’s get back to your initial point which is the process of disclosure because you’re saying this race has given them an ultimatum by 2017 ready or not, here they come, right?
Clay Pickering
I would be careful about the word ultimatum. That’s another trigger word we have to be careful of. I don’t want to get caught in semantics, Alan, but this is what we are going to do. This is going to happen in 2017.
Alan Steinfeld
Can we call that an ultimatum? Yes. Is it an ultimatum? Maybe not.
Shawn Pickering
I know what you’re saying. It’s up to our free will. They have their agenda obviously. We have to sort of as a planet understand what’s happening. It’s like the seasons, the seasons are changing and this is a season.
Clay Pickering
Right. By showing up unambiguously over certain cities in 2017, what is the net effect? They’re showing us that we’re not alone. And what our guy gleans from this, what we glean from it, is the hope that humanity will start realizing that A, we’re not alone, that we’re a species on a planet, and there are other species on other planets. It’s a way of finding identity or breaking the provincial attitude that we have.
Alan Steinfeld
So you’re saying it’s up to us in the next eight years as a planetary people to come to the government to come forward… there seems to be now a process in place that will prepare the planet. Is this what your guys are wanting to unfold?
Shawn Pickering
What we’re getting from our source is that, let’s look at a pyramid. Three quarters of the way up the pyramid, there is a high mid-level bureaucratic level. Not right in the middle, but high middle. It’s a bureaucratic level that deals with the individuals that get things done. So they’re having meetings as we speak around the globe. These people are meeting.
Clay Pickering
Let me interject on that. Shawn is absolutely right because we spoke to our source yesterday and he said yes, they’re continuing. Even though he may not be privy to the information, the pattern is the same. The idea of the information and the movement toward disclosure will continue without our source at least being part of the UN initiative. It’s continuing.
Alan Steinfeld
So wait, there’s meetings at the UN now? Who’s meeting?
Clay Pickering
When we mean UN, it doesn’t physically have to take place. It doesn’t physically have to take place down at the UN. In other words, it could be under the initiative that these are UN representatives and then they go somewhere else to talk about it.
Shawn Pickering
So anyway, there’s a bunch of countries meeting about this. The original February 12th, 2008 meeting where a group of people got together, they introduced the idea of hammering out what needs to be done prior to the 2017 date. Now those meetings quickly went elsewhere. Personnel changed. Our guy got reassigned. He was no longer involved with that, I’d say around April of 2008. He moved on to a different assignment and he had another person counterpart come in and he does it. So we now have a process in place where these high-level middle bureaucratic people that get things done are hammering out the details.
Clay Pickering
Once they do that, then they’re going to present a menu of choices to the diplomatic core. Our source, by the way, does not know the counterpart, his successor. He does not know, nor is he privy to that information. This is compartmentalized information.
Alan Steinfeld
Right. But what’s interesting is what are the details this organization is hammering out that will be in place over the next eight years? What are the details?
Shawn Pickering
Alan, use your imagination. What are all the problems that this world will face when a particular ET race pops over cities?
Alan Steinfeld
Well, one of the problems is I think there’ll be gifts. I mean they might give us this free energy technology that everyone’s…
Clay Pickering
That’s another issue we’ll get into a little bit later. We’re talking about the immediate response.
Alan Steinfeld
Immediate problems, mass hysteria, you mean.
Shawn Pickering
Exactly. We’re also talking about, will our money markets be stable? Will people not go to work? A huge draw on money. Something that creates such dislocation that the whole commercial commerce process will seize up. These are all the problems that they face on that day in 2017. Another problem is that people have to continue going to work.
Clay Pickering
Would people go to work or would they sit around their TV sets for three days going, wow, look at that? I would sit around the TV, yes sure. Here’s the issue. I won’t couch it this time, I’ve done it. It may come down to that this martial law, they force people at gunpoint to go to work. Otherwise, we could completely collapse. Seven days, the canned goods and the food stuffs in our grocery marts will be gone.
Alan Steinfeld
What are they hammering out that’s going to… if they’ve already decided martial law… how are they going to…
Clay Pickering
What they’ve got to hammer out is the disclosure process, to hammer out the problems. One problem is immunity. Understand this, this has been covered up for some 70 years. Laws have been broken. So there’s got to be an immunity process put in place whereby they can release the disclosure information, people will say, well you knew about this and so and so lost his job and so and so disappeared. The immunity process has to be put in place. And then from there, when the diplomatic core gets it, then they’re going to introduce the idea to certain select members of nation states. And then from there, there’s going to be an agreement and then they’ll start releasing the idea that extraterrestrials have been visiting our planet.
Shawn Pickering
We’ve got to get past the idea, we need the Roman Catholic Church to say, the probability that there’s other intelligent sentient life out there. Listen guys, I don’t want to hear anything more about probabilities or possibilities. The hymen needs to be broken here. They’re here. We need the power structure to say, guys, forget about possibility and probability about intelligent life being out there. They’ve been here and they’ve been here for a very long time. We kept it quiet because we didn’t know what the hell we’re doing or we didn’t know what we were dealing with. That’s it, period. That’s what’s got to happen.
Clay Pickering
But here’s the deal, is that disclosure, they’ve got to prepare the public from this point, from the February 12th meeting to 2017 and say, give people time to chew on it, digest it, and say wow, they exist and this and that. They’ve got to do that because when contact happens, we’ve got to get people not to freeze. Now I don’t worry about the everyday Joe Sixpack and the mothers out there, because most people live paycheck to paycheck or even day to day now. So they have to feed their kids, they have to clothe their kids. They understand that there’s a necessity that has to be paid attention to regardless of anything fantastic. So I’m not too worried about John Q. Public. The only concern about John Q. Public is that we gawk at it for three days and we hover at the television instead of going to work, because we need to survive, all of us. The other issue our source mentioned is that the elite may run on the banks. Maybe they run on art and whatever. I’m just speculating here.
Alan Steinfeld
I understand all that and the mass hysteria. But I’m just curious backing up to the John Podesta situation, who obviously knows about ETs because of his connection to someone. He was part of the press club thing and his connection to Obama. Now is that part of the initial disclosure, his placement within the Obama administration?
Shawn Pickering
There are select people that are connected to a block that wants disclosure to happen that are being put into place and not all the pieces have been put into place yet. Clay and I cannot get too specific on this because there are a player or two that have not been put into place and we don’t want to muddle that process.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay, but what is your guy saying now about the disclosure process? Is he laying out a step-by-step process?
Shawn Pickering
Only in the most general terms, because he’s no longer part of that process that he was early in 2008. However, he is still part of the other program. He will always be a part of that other program from what we gather in terms of contact. In other words, he is an envoy. He is a human element for contact with extraterrestrials. He’s part of the envoys for lack of a better word or liaisons. So that will continue, but we are not privy to that information nor do we know when that will happen next. But it will continue to happen because there’s still going to be a dialogue in place between the human element and the conformers about disclosure. Where are you guys at with disclosure, in so many words. That’s part of it. I want to go back a little bit for the listeners. There was a process that took place before he was in the position to meet this particular ET race. It was a couple hundred people and it was honed down to a very small number of people. There was a very thorough process of reducing this large pool down to a small pool. Part of it was the ability to interface with something that exotic and to do so and be objective.
Clay Pickering
You have to put an objective hat on, because the group that he’s connected to, they want to get as much information as possible and they don’t want his interpretation colored by his biases. They don’t want presuppositions or assumptions or inferences other than what he sees, smells, hears relative to the present time.
Alan Steinfeld
I guess. No projection of what it is. The notion of above or so below, he would be an individual instance of the below, the greater instance of the above would be the UFO community. The UFO community has not done a very good job in withholding their biases when they interpret certain events.
Shawn Pickering
In general, people that are involved in UFO research that have interacted with whistleblowers, and they present the story in such a way that they color their interpretation with their own human biases. This has been part of the problem, not the whole problem, but part of the problem.
Clay Pickering
I’ll give you an example. Clifford Stone, I think the world of his information. He talked about extraterrestrial crashes or the extraterrestrials themselves. Specifically, I believe the grays. He made a comment, they have their likes, they have their dislikes, they have their loves, they have their what not. That is, I’m not going to disagree with Clifford with the particular extraterrestrial race he’s dealing with. He may know something about that race, but that doesn’t mean all races. We don’t know, he may be presupposing or manifesting his own ideas of what loves or likes or dislikes with extraterrestrials, he may be absolutely wrong.
Alan Steinfeld
So let’s go forward now and see what the process actually is. Your guy sort of taken out of the program you’re saying, but he’s still an envoy to the…
Shawn Pickering
He’s out of the… there’s two programs. The initial program was the UN program. He is no longer a part of that now. His job, he has moved on to another program. At least that we know of. There’s always a possibility he’s withholding that information. What we do know is he is in a liaison program with this particular extraterrestrial race and at least two others.
Alan Steinfeld
So where does he meet these guys, these extraterrestrials? Where do they show up and how does he interact with them?
Clay Pickering
I’m going to say no comment.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. That’s fine.
Clay Pickering
Both Shawn and I cannot get into that.
Alan Steinfeld
But we can say one point that he meant he interfaced with some of these at a temporary base of place.
Shawn Pickering
Okay, so it’s some place that obviously other people are aware of, he’s not just summoned to the middle of a field somewhere. It’s all arranged somehow. Not a bad guess Alan, not a bad guess. But do these ET races send a signal to a military base a certain code and saying get your guys ready?
Clay Pickering
That’s an excellent question, Alan. Now this demands a definition. We’re going to define to you how it’s split up among various branches. The Army handles what, Clay? Army is security. The base security is Department of Homeland Security, DHS, Department of Energy, DOE, and the Army handles security and bases. The Air Force handles technology and contact. And the Navy handles policy regarding extraterrestrial affairs. Navy and State Department are in charge of policy. So if the Navy gets interactive with an ET race, it’s going to be handed off from elements of the Air Force. You see how it’s split up? So initial contact for technology you’d have Air Force people involved in that.
Alan Steinfeld
But isn’t that strange that actually the legitimate government or the main government definitely has sort of strategized this? Or is this the part of the top secret?
Shawn Pickering
No, this is not the legitimate government side involved. Now there are elements with what Locke Johnson calls the Gang of Eight. That’s your House and your Senate intelligence and armed services personnel. There’s eight of them who are aware of this, or to some degree they are aware of some of the program, not but not the totality of the program. Clay and I are in contact with a particular individual who was connected to a particular intelligence agency. He stated that he tried to contact various people in the constitutional government about the ET phenomenon. And at every twist and turn, the people he talked to, and we’re talking people extremely high up, they just did not know, they didn’t have the need to know, they didn’t have the information.
Alan Steinfeld
So he did talk to them though.
Shawn Pickering
Yes he did. And this particular person that Clay and I have talked to, we haven’t physically met but we’ve talked to him, he’s tried through the overt political channels to find out about this and these people don’t know. It’s amazing. We’re talking very high up in our constitutional government.
Alan Steinfeld
But you said this guy your informant just talked to them so they must know now.
Shawn Pickering
No, I’m talking about another individual. This is somebody who’s been privy to some of this information or has sought it out and has gotten a confirmation about what our guy’s been through. He’s briefed officials at the highest levels of our government.
Alan Steinfeld
Okay. Where are we now in the process? And what’s the sort of latest news your informant has been telling you? Can you just outline that?
Clay Pickering
Here’s one for you that’s been going around. And this is no slight to our colleagues because this is difficult, we’re getting real-time tactical information and trying to find it. Has President Obama been briefed on the UFO question? Some people think that he has. Well, according to our guy, he has not been briefed yet. And part of the problem is that they’ve got to get certain people in place so they can get to the president and be able to tell him exactly what’s going on. Remember, the president is very much insulated.
Alan Steinfeld
Well that was the John Podesta thing. Wasn’t John Podesta part of the transition team and also part of the exo-politics?
Clay Pickering
According to our guy, Obama has not been briefed. I don’t know to what degree or who. But I asked him and I’m just going to run through the litany very quickly about presidents who have been briefed. Roosevelt, we believe to some degree probably was briefed. We’re in his nascent stages in terms of the modern era of the phenomenon. Truman, no doubt, was briefed, he was privy to the early beginnings, Roswell and on. Eisenhower, no doubt. Kennedy, we feel was briefed to a fairly large degree. Johnson, we don’t feel was briefed. Nixon was briefed only because he was VP to Eisenhower and he would have been in a position to be privy to that information. We surmise.
Shawn Pickering
Now when we get into Ford, no. We get into Carter, one of the most well-briefed presidents.
Alan Steinfeld
Well-briefed, Carter?
Clay Pickering
Let me go through the litany. Yes, Carter was briefed absolutely. Carter was briefed. Reagan, no. Bush Senior, I mean one of the most knowledgeable people but kind of muffed it up. I didn’t get into specifics why he muffed it up, but he was going in and out of the information, it wasn’t conveying it properly or didn’t convey it properly. Clinton, no. Bush Junior, hell no. And Obama, not yet.
Alan Steinfeld
Why would they brief Carter because he had his own UFO experience because he’s Navy. Navy, Navy, Navy. Remember this guy was a physicist in the Navy.
Clay Pickering
Interesting now, huh? Also Bobby Ray Inman. Bobby Ray Inman at the time, if I remember correctly, was Director of the National Security Agency in around that time and was also Deputy Director of the CIA. So let’s get back to this process of disclosure and what your guy’s position is now, and what these conformers are telling him on a regular basis, would you say he’s meeting with these beings?
Shawn Pickering
No, not on a regular basis. From what I understand he’s only met the conformers on two occasions. One, he met them roughly two weeks before the release of the February 12th UN meeting. And then he met the conformers again in the time period of late May to early June 2008.
Clay Pickering
This is important now. Let me get this point across to our military brethren who might be listening. Notice that our guy is Navy and I set the TDY which is an Air Force term, temporary duty. The Navy is TAD and please don’t ask me to tell you it’s basically the same thing as TDY. Shawn and I have gotten a lot of criticism because they said TDY, oh this is disinformation because that’s an Air Force term and your guy’s Navy and you guys are bullshit. No, that’s not how it works. This is an Air Force program. Remember Air Force is in charge of technology and contact. This particular program was handed off to the Navy. That means the Air Force is paying for it.
Shawn Pickering
Though the team leader of this particular program, the contact, the extraterrestrial contact that our source and the inner service team have been a part of, that means the Air Force is paying for it, but the Navy is in charge of this program, or the team leader is Navy. Just to give you an update because I think what you’re searching for… that stuff, it’s interesting sort of, but I’m not so interested in it because I wasn’t so familiar with the military. I want to know more the steps that are being laid out toward the disclosure.
Clay Pickering
Our guy gets reassigned. Now he’s in kind of a weird status and he’s doing his thing because he’ll be reactivated, brought back into the program maybe at some other time, I don’t know. But what we can say is that as we speak these mid-level bureaucrats are hammering out the issues. As they’re doing it, there are plans to bring in certain people in the current administration. When that happens, you’ll see things heat up a little bit. Now is it a done deal? Can’t say. There’s hopes there that the right people get in.
Alan Steinfeld
Let me just back up for one minute. Meanwhile, we are getting lots of sightings in the last few years. I mean, is that part of this coordinated activity between what those guys are doing and what’s…?
Clay Pickering
First of all, we don’t know. We don’t know if there’s a coordination. We suspect so. Let’s keep that in mind. Two, if contact, when contact happens in 2017, we do know at least through our source that it’s going to be one particular race who appears to be in charge, this is the conformers.
Shawn Pickering
Also, keep this in mind. If you can have one extraterrestrial race, then why not a hundred? That means there may be competing agendas with other extraterrestrials that we’re not aware of, that maybe even the conformers are not aware of. Doubtful, I believe the conformers are very much aware of it. But there are other extraterrestrial species that we gather. So maybe they have their own agendas up until that time that contact occurs. There’ll be nods to certain governments, they’ll start releasing UFO files as they’re doing. The Catholic Church last year came out and said that the idea of extraterrestrial life is not incongruent with God’s design. To me that’s a huge step on the part of the Catholic Church. Records have been released, albeit records that are redacted, but they can be re-released or a little bit more information can be given out. You’re seeing a warming, a detente as they say, in the disclosure area. Now when you see it really pick up, and you see really reputable people come out and start acknowledging this, then you’re going to see how the influence of these mid-level bureaucratic people are doing in terms of bringing disclosure out. It’s a step-by-step process. They won’t come out one day and say per se, ET is real. It will be a step-by-step process, it will culminate maybe in that.
Clay Pickering
Let me give you an analogy. In 1995, Bill Clinton, please forgive me the name of the rock, the Martian rock that they found in Antarctica, that possibly showed a particular type of cellular structure or a parasite of some form that was extraterrestrial. Now that may have been a program to feel out the public to see how receptive they were. I think it’s being leaked through science as well. They’re preparing us on all fronts, maybe they’ll say life exists on Mars, sort of hedging that bet it seems for a long time. Here’s the problem with desensitizing the public and academia, is that no one wants to say, no one wants to come forward and say, well yeah sure, we believe there’s other sentient life out there. Drake’s equation, probabilities one. The Catholic Church, yeah no crap guys. But someone’s got to come forward and say, you guys, they’re here. They’ve been here. No one wants to say that.
Alan Steinfeld
But someone’s gonna have to say that or be…
Clay Pickering
Yeah, but that’s the big enchilada. Someone has to be someone that the major media is going to pump. In other words, if it’s President Obama, or it’s one of the top nuclear physicists in the world, or it’s someone of renown who would have inside information that most people would agree that this person has a platform to say it. That’s where it has to happen. Or you’ll see an instance where someone reveals something and your next intuitive thing to think is oh, they’re going to start belittling this guy, they’re going to call him an idiot. And that’s not going to happen. All of a sudden he’s going to sit there like a log.
Alan Steinfeld
Well it’s already happening on television. The history channel and ABC/NBC already did shows where they didn’t just get the debunkers out and say this is… they’re kind of not doing that so much, the mainstream TV.
Clay Pickering
That’s correct. It’s starting to change. You don’t get the malicious reaction from the debunkers. You get Larry King talking about it coast to coast every night practically. I applaud Larry King. It’s not complete as information, but at least he’s had several shows dealing with the subject. The problem is we got to get past the giggle factor and the ridicule factor. We’ve got to stop ridiculing people for exploring the issue. I mean the science community and academia, who have to step up and say, okay guys, we think there’s something there, I have done the work, I see the circumstantial evidence, I see the case histories, and there is definitely something there. They’ve got to come forward and say okay, we need a proper investigation.
Alan Steinfeld
Can I offer an instance where the immunity instance… you know how many airplane pilots have lost their jobs over the last 60 years because they insisted on reporting UFOs? That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen if it comes out the fact that they were actually honest and it was true. The immunity factor must be dealt with before disclosure. How are they planning on dealing with that? Are they just going to say you guys are off the hook because you were protecting the public?
Clay Pickering
It will be much like the eminent domain notion that they had to do it at the time, it was under the National Security Act. There was policies in place because they simply did not know how to handle the issue. Otherwise people are going to go back and sue for back pay and all that stuff because it’s not just the pilots, I’m sure it’s a lot of people that are going to be in trouble when this comes out. This whole government secrecy like Congress calling these secret black project governments forward and saying how could you guys be lying for 60 years. That’s a big thing.
Shawn Pickering
Again under the rubric of national security, they can simply say that we simply did not know how to maintain the stability of modern civilization. Let’s be a little fair to the Air Force. We’re presupposing that these guys knew everything of what was going on with the ET phenomena. These guys, I venture to say is that they were going through the same struggles that most people are going through in terms of what we’ve just discussed tonight, that they did not know the complete picture. Wilbur Smith wrote significantly about the event of airplanes falling out of the sky in the May/June period of 1947. It was an instance where we were running into the wake of some of these craft that create what they call areas of loose binding and the planes would just fall out of the sky. The Air Force, you know, in all fairness, didn’t know what the heck they were doing. Probably thought they were hostile for that reason. We gotta do another show because we’re kind of getting to the end.
Clay Pickering
Think of a question that you really yourself would really like to get into right now before the show’s up.
Alan Steinfeld
Well, thank you. I just want to know if there is a really concrete way that they are going to go about a way of presenting this to the public. I guess you’ve been talking about that, and what do they think after these conformers land, what’s the future of the planet going to look like after 2017? I guess that’s my final question tonight.
Clay Pickering
We can’t give you very specific strokes about what they’re going to do to facilitate disclosure because we are not part of the process. We can’t say that on 2017 these things just may disappear. In other words, if we are not prepared to do certain things, and that’s for another show, to be responsible with our planet, how we receive, how we react to this contact will determine whether these guys are just going to say okay, boys, have a nice day, I’ll see you in 200 years. Now hold on, they’ll still watch over, you’ll still have the encounters and still all the other stuff. But this would be the first overt contact, unambiguous overt contact by an extraterrestrial race to say how are we going to handle it? It’s a step, it’s a process.
Alan Steinfeld
Why don’t we do the show next week, why don’t we just pick up this discussion and get into some of that, how are we going to clean up the planet and be prepared and all these questions that we haven’t gotten to tonight. You want to do that?
Clay Pickering
Sure, yeah we’ll do it. Alan, you don’t let me sink though do you, you know that. I want to do something here, just recently we had going back in some of these top UFO researchers and it got pretty heated. Finally Bob Morningstar says, let me give you a little poetry. And he proceeded to give a poem. So it’s still got heated, so I said, God, I got to jump in here. So I said to the guys, I said, guys, can I try my hand at poetry? Now keep this in mind, very quickly, this is very quick. It’s a parody on NASA during the time NASA was talking about how to do things more inexpensive and do it quicker. So it goes something like this: Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The cow crashed, killing the cat and the fiddle, faster, cheaper and better, and NASA knew that too.
Alan Steinfeld
Some of these NASA guys… hope you guys are laughing, okay? Cause I had a couple guys laughing… Thanks guys. This has been great. We’ll pick this up discussion up next week, okay? You’re not laughing at my poem! Thanks. I’ve been talking to Shawn and Clay Pickering and they are really on top I feel of the disclosure process that is going to happen and is happening and we are all part of that process. Everyone is listening as part of the process of the revelation that UFOs are here and they are here to stay. So thanks guys for tonight.
Clay Pickering
You got it, Alan. Have a good day. Thank you very much.
Alan Steinfeld
This is New Realities for Alan Steinfeld. And if you want to reach me, email me at newrealities@earthlink.net and watch my look at my website newrealities.com. Thank you. And this is Neil Young singing.